D&D 4E 4e Pokemon Tabletop RPG

[Camelot]

I'm having the baby be the norm for the heroic tier, with Pikachu or equivalent Pokemon being the paragon path and Raichu being the epic destiny. However, if a player is one of those who only likes the first 150, then they can treat Pichu as Pikachu with no problem by simply changing the flavor. If a baby is so drastically different from its next evolution, that might make some problems, but I don't think any of them are. The evolution that gives 1 effort point in the video game is first.

 

[Camelot]

Here's the scoop about weapons.

Unlike D&D heroes, Pokemon can't switch out their weapons. In this respect, they are like monsters. However, they usually do have a wide variety of weapons to choose from. There are two types of weapons: physical (weapons) and special (implements).

Special weapons are pretty straightforward. They work like implements, so the range and damage of their attacks are in the powers. See Bulbasaur for an example. Bulbasaur can pick from two strategies, one that uses vines more often and one that favors leaves. Both come into play when Bulbasaur uses a power that has the special keyword (meaning it uses a special weapon), but vines are for ranged and melee attacks whereas close and area attacks use leaves. Of course, ranged and close are much more common than melee and area, but the latter are included just in case. If Bulbasaur didn't have this feature, though, there would be no distinction when using his powers (until you get into things like "enchanted" weapons, but I'm not quite there yet).

Physical weapons are a bit more complicated, just like weapons compared to implements in D&D. There are many different physical weapons, like teeth, head, claws, body, tail, etc. In the weapons chapter, they'll each have entries for proficiency bonus, damage, range, etc. Yes, there are ranged physical weapons (like for Poison Sting or some others), though they are a bit rare as of now. The damage increases by size, and sometimes a Pokemon can gain or lose weapons by evolving (for example, Charmander will gain wings as a weapon when it becomes Charizard). Charmander's damage becomes higher when he grows into Charmeleon, because Charmeleon is Medium, and therefore his weapons are bigger.

"Enchanted" weapons are hold items. They give item bonuses to attack and damage and extra critical damage and added effects. It works like D&D; Pokemon will have a number of slots that I'll figure out at a later point.

Hope this explains it! Thanks for the help, Malcolm. If anyone else is reading this, I'd be happy to hear other ideas too!

 

[Camelot]

Just want to let anybody who is still interested in this to know it has not died out. In fact, I finally came up with the last Raiser power I've been looking for.

Adaptable Raising: Each of your Pokemon knows one extra 1st-level at-will attack power from their 1st-level at-will attack power list.

If anyone has any qualms about any of the trainer features or Pokemon features and powers, I'd love to hear them. I'm working on Squirtle now, but he's giving me a hard time coming up with features. Squirtle is a Leader (secondary Defender) with Dexterity primary, Constitution or Wisdom secondary, and Charisma tertiary. All I have right now is Healing Bubbles.

Healing Bubbles - Squirtle Feature
Encounter (Special) * Healing
Minor Action - Close burst 5 (10 at 11th level, 15 at 21st level)
Target: You or one ally in burst
Effect: The target can spend a healing surge, and you or an ally within range besides the target regains 1d6 hit points.
Level 6: 2d6 hit points.
Level 11: 3d6 hit points.
Level 16: 4d6 hit points.
Level 21: 5d6 hit points.
Level 26: 6d6 hit points.
Special: You can use this power twice per encounter. At 16th level, you can use this power three times per encounter. You can only use this power once per round.

Pikachu isn't far behind, being a pure Striker with Dexterity primary, Intelligence or Charisma secondary, and Strength tertiary. Even if you don't have any specific mechanics you'd like to see on anything, I would like to know how you want the Pokemon to be played. I can take those ideas and turn them into mechanics.

 

[Cwheeler]

Will trainers have their own stats, HP, etc?

What if, as a part of the story, A trainer has to sneak into a compound, or fight a human enemy without their pokemon, or even fight a pokemon by themselves?

Would such a situation be evenly matched, or would the side with the pokemon be much stronger?


I have a project that I'm working on that is superficially similar to this (using Mechs and Pilots, rather than Pokemon and Trainers), and experimenting with the ideas of

a) Having the pilots work on a power-scale similar to d20 modern classes.

or

b) Using a damage progression system, rather than a HP system for the pilots.


Just some random thoughts that might help you to flesh out another part of this interesting project .

 

[Camelot]

I think since Pokemon vs. human would only happen if it had a good story reason, the most of it could just be roleplaying. Since the trainer's have ability scores and levels, you could easily figure out their defenses, and then just assume how much damage it does depending on the needs of the story. For example, if you want the trainer to win, it doesn't kill him or her, but could "weaken" the trainer, however you want that to work. If you want the trainers to get knocked out and captured, go ahead.

An assumption about the world of Pokemon that I have created is that Pokemon in the wild are dangerous ("Don't go out into the tall grass!"). However, Pokemon captured by a Pokeball, while not less powerful, are limited. Their attacks cannot actually kill others, and the harm done is only temporary. This is why Pokemon, once fainting, were still conscious, and why Ash could get zapped by Pikachu and burned by Charizard so often. So, a trainer battling another trainer's (or his or her own) Pokemon would not have much to worry about. Battling a wild Pokemon would be dangerous, but so foolish that no trainer in their right mind would think of it.

Thanks for the input!

 

[Real Sorceror]

Hey everybody. I myself have been working on a pretty extensive Pokemon project, located here: Pokemon d20: Of Pockets & Monsters

I'm using a 4e framework but the techniques act more like 3rd editions spellcasting. The project is still in alpha stage so I'm still looking for suggestions and critics.

I'll be running a playtest at Giant in the Playground Forums - Powered by vBulletin in (hopefully) about a week.

I'll read through your work later tonight and give a proper review.
Everything on my site is open gaming license, so feel free to use my material if you find it useful. I've got a bit of a headstart on most d20 Pokemon conversions I've seen.

 

[Real Sorceror]

Reading through the thread, I can definitely tell we're going in different directions here. I like some of the ideas presented, but others just don't jive with me.
For example, I'm not a fan of the idea with the trainer and pokemon meshed together as race and class. The way I've done it, the human (player) and pokemon (monster) are two separate entities entirely, with their own racial features, class abilities, and feats. In fact, a human doesn't even need to own any Pokemon to play, though they'd obviously get left out when everyone else is battling a gym leader or something.
Also, having each Pokemon count as a seperate class just isn't going to work. You'll die of old age long before you accomplish that lofty goal. Here are some of my suggestions:
1) Design 17 Pokemon classes, one for each type, and create their at-will, encounter, and daily powers based on the video-game moves of that type or Design only one Pokemon class and have each type a different school, much like a Wizard.
2) The second and third evolutions of a Pokemon become their Paragon Path and Epic Destiny, respectively. Again, it would probably be best to base these around type (Fire, Grass, Bug, etc) rather than individual species.
3) Humans should start out with a base class, then gain a prestige class at 11th and a destiny at 21st. The ones you've invented work fine. Personally I went with Trainer, Breeder, Coordinator, etc as base and then did Professor, Ranger, etc as Paragon paths. We basically had the same ideas for Epic Destinies.
4) Humans should gain talents, cheers, and other powers related to raising, battling, and finding/catching Pokemon. Humans could also gain a few Pokemon moves with multiclass feats (remember there are Human Psychics and martial artists).

Your class skill selection looks good. I chose many of the same things. However, I would definitely have both humans and pokemon have their own skills. Pokemon can at least have basic things like Athletics, Perception, and Stealth. I also really like this:

Quick idea for capturing: you make an attack against each of the Pokemon's defenses. The attack is base d20 + one-half trainer's level. If the Pokemon is at full health, you need to hit all three defenses to capture it. If the Pokemon is injured (at half health), you need to hit two defenses. If the Pokemon is at one-fourth health, you need to hit one defense. The Pokeball used gives certain bonuses depending on its type, and you get normal bonuses from the target Pokemon being helpless (from sleep or frozen) or having combat advantage.

How does that sound?

I have yet to fully develop my capture mechanic yet, and your idea looks excellent. If I steal it I'll be sure to give credit where its due.
I did have the idea to have different Poke Balls add a bonus on the roll. In addition to the Great and Ultra, you also have the dozens of others like the Net and Timer Ball, which provide bonuses in more specific situations.

note: Ack! Bulbapedia is apparently updating their site, and since all my images are from there my site is looking very not good.

 

[Camelot]

Thanks for the input! It's very helpful.

I really want each Pokemon to be able to have their own class, but I know it's impossible. Maybe I will make each type a class, with uber amount of powers, and then give each Pokemon their own class features? Or limit which powers they can pick? But then every grass Pokemon would be a controller or something...I want each Pokemon to feel unique when battling. But I want to eventually make each Pokemon!

Also, on the human, I may change that, but I think it works pretty well being the race. I do like your ideas, though, and I think I'll expand how trainers work. They already get their own skills, but I'll let them choose their own feats and powers so the Pokemon don't have to. Or how about this: the trainers only get feats, but those feats could grant feat powers. I'll work with it and see if I can handle it.

As to psychic trainers, martial artists, etc., those would each be new trainer classes, represented by the races. So, a psychic would have a feature that lets it throw a Pokeball when it doesn't have line of sight or line of effect, as long as it can count a number of adjacent squares to the target equal to 2 + its Intelligence modifier or something. A martial artist could have his own attack if the enemy's Pokemon get too close, and he could boost his Pokemons' attack power. My plan for the trainer classes is to have one for each of the Pokedex holders in the manga (who represent the iconic trainers, like Ash, Misty, Brock, Gary, etc.), but then in supplements (or however I release this material) introduce other trainer classes that are the categories of the trainers you face in the game, like psychic, bug catcher, youngster, beauty, juggler, whatever. It lets there be a lot of options for "races!"

Your ideas seem like they'd work too, only that you use more 3rd edition whereas mine is firmly 4th. I think they're both plausibly good games, though the way mine's going it will take a long time to get all the Pokemon made. Part of being a trainer, though, is needing to catch the Pokemon. You don't start out with a lot, but you'll be able to battle against a lot. You just can't use some of the Pokemon you catch if it doesn't have a class writeup...I'm going to work on this.

Thanks again for the help, and good luck on your own endeavors (heh, that's a Pokemon attack)!

 

[Real Sorceror]

Thanks for the input! It's very helpful.

I really want each Pokemon to be able to have their own class, but I know it's impossible. Maybe I will make each type a class, with uber amount of powers, and then give each Pokemon their own class features? Or limit which powers they can pick? But then every grass Pokemon would be a controller or something...I want each Pokemon to feel unique when battling. But I want to eventually make each Pokemon!

If you've got your heart set on it, I'd suggest limiting yourself to a single generation of Pokemon for the time being, or even just go with 1-50 or something. Once you have that mastered it'll be easy to churn 'em out. You may still want to consider building them as individual monsters with their signature moves as their monster attacks.
In any event, I think Legendary Pokemon should be unique, separate creatures or be built in as epic destinies.

Also, on the human, I may change that, but I think it works pretty well being the race. I do like your ideas, though, and I think I'll expand how trainers work. They already get their own skills, but I'll let them choose their own feats and powers so the Pokemon don't have to. Or how about this: the trainers only get feats, but those feats could grant feat powers. I'll work with it and see if I can handle it.

The only reason it bothers me is that there is not a lot of basis for having two or more creatures count as the same character. If you think about it, the Pokemon will be completely separate things until they are caught by a trainer. Do they not have a race until they get caught?
Not putting you down or anything, its just something thats going to be thought out. Maybe you could try building a lvl 1 trainer with a starter mon to see how it looks.

As to psychic trainers, martial artists, etc., those would each be new trainer classes, represented by the races. So, a psychic would have a feature that lets it throw a Pokeball when it doesn't have line of sight or line of effect, as long as it can count a number of adjacent squares to the target equal to 2 + its Intelligence modifier or something. A martial artist could have his own attack if the enemy's Pokemon get too close, and he could boost his Pokemons' attack power. My plan for the trainer classes is to have one for each of the Pokedex holders in the manga (who represent the iconic trainers, like Ash, Misty, Brock, Gary, etc.), but then in supplements (or however I release this material) introduce other trainer classes that are the categories of the trainers you face in the game, like psychic, bug catcher, youngster, beauty, juggler, whatever. It lets there be a lot of options for "races!"

The various Bugcatchers, Fishermen, Bird Watchers, etc would probably work better as a specific focus for trainer to have rather than a separate race. Or they could just be feats that provide a benefit when dealing with a specific type or subtype (the subtypes being things like bird, fish, or worm Pokemon).
The "classes" I did where more like d20 Modern starting occupations. They where Trainer (Ash), Breeder (Brock), Coordinator (Dawn), Deviant (the Rocket/Aqua/etc Grunt), Photographer (Snap), and Warrior. Most of yours are direct parralles of these so I think we have our bases covered.

Your ideas seem like they'd work too, only that you use more 3rd edition whereas mine is firmly 4th. I think they're both plausibly good games, though the way mine's going it will take a long time to get all the Pokemon made. Part of being a trainer, though, is needing to catch the Pokemon. You don't start out with a lot, but you'll be able to battle against a lot. You just can't use some of the Pokemon you catch if it doesn't have a class writeup...I'm going to work on this.

To convert the Pokemon from the video game into d20, I used this formula, which was originally created by MythMage at Dicefreaks:
HP/5 = Constitution
Attack/5 = Strength
Defense/10 = Natural Armor
Sp. Attack/5 = Charisma
Sp. Defense/5 = Wisdom
Speed/5 = Dexterity
It helped me a lot, at least to have somewhere to start when stating the little buggers.
Catching all of the Pokemon was hard enough in the video game and would take even longer in a tabletop style game. Defeating all the gym leaders and elite four is probably a more plausible goal.

Thanks again for the help, and good luck on your own endeavors (heh, that's a Pokemon attack)!

Good luck to you too, brosky.

 

[Camelot]

If you've got your heart set on it, I'd suggest limiting yourself to a single generation of Pokemon for the time being, or even just go with 1-50 or something. Once you have that mastered it'll be easy to churn 'em out. You may still want to consider building them as individual monsters with their signature moves as their monster attacks.

Yeah, I was going to start with the 1st generation and slowly add more if I figured out whether the game worked or not. In fact, I'm only starting with the Kanto starters and early wild Pokemon to begin, then see if it works, add more Kanto, and continue to expand slowly.

In any event, I think Legendary Pokemon should be unique, separate creatures or be built in as epic destinies.

Legendary Pokemon will probably be solos or at least elites, which are impossible to capture even with a master ball. I know that deviates from Pokemon standards, but I'm going for more of a story making game than a "try to catch 'em all" or "beat all the gym leaders and elite four and become champion" game. The focus will be on the story, not on seeing and capturing Pokemon. That will be a factor, as will battling gym leaders, but the story should come first.

The only reason it bothers me is that there is not a lot of basis for having two or more creatures count as the same character. If you think about it, the Pokemon will be completely separate things until they are caught by a trainer. Do they not have a race until they get caught?
Not putting you down or anything, its just something thats going to be thought out. Maybe you could try building a lvl 1 trainer with a starter mon to see how it looks.

The trainer as a race represents the trainer's style of training, which can make two same-species Pokemon become very different under different trainers. Wild Pokemon get their own "racial" benefits for being wild that trained Pokemon don't have. I just haven't figured this part out yet. This immediately switches once caught.

This does open up some strange questions. Since wild Pokemon will be statted like monsters, they will change drastically once caught. The reason? A wizard did it. Whoever invented the Pokeball must've been some kind of wizard, because the effects it has on Pokemon is astounding. It even prevents them from being able to kill with their extreme power.

The various Bugcatchers, Fishermen, Bird Watchers, etc would probably work better as a specific focus for trainer to have rather than a separate race. Or they could just be feats that provide a benefit when dealing with a specific type or subtype (the subtypes being things like bird, fish, or worm Pokemon).
The "classes" I did where more like d20 Modern starting occupations. They where Trainer (Ash), Breeder (Brock), Coordinator (Dawn), Deviant (the Rocket/Aqua/etc Grunt), Photographer (Snap), and Warrior. Most of yours are direct parralles of these so I think we have our bases covered.

This is true, and a good idea. This'll give trainer feats a lot more bulk and give them a reason to exist. Thanks for the idea! New change: trainers get their own feats. They'll probably get one every level, unlike Pokemon. This lets the Pokemon choose only feats for themselves. This also gives a significant advantage to trained Pokemon, which is exactly as it should be.

To convert the Pokemon from the video game into d20, I used this formula, which was originally created by MythMage at Dicefreaks:
HP/5 = Constitution
Attack/5 = Strength
Defense/10 = Natural Armor
Sp. Attack/5 = Charisma
Sp. Defense/5 = Wisdom
Speed/5 = Dexterity
It helped me a lot, at least to have somewhere to start when stating the little buggers.

This could work for general abilities, but it would need tweaking. This is because (in my game) every Pokemon of the same level has roughly the same power level (gives the same XP), just as each 4e class is equal. So, Magikarp can feasibly battle a pikachu and possibly win (I think they'll both be strikers). This is a huge change from the Pokemon video games, but for the better in my opinion. This will prevent players from "needing" a certain Pokemon to win, and not require a lot of complicated math trying to figure out the XP. If I used these formulas, the weak Pokemon would remain weak instead of being balanced with all the others.

Catching all of the Pokemon was hard enough in the video game and would take even longer in a tabletop style game. Defeating all the gym leaders and elite four is probably a more plausible goal.

Good luck to you too, brosky.

Yep, like I said, the idea is not to catch 'em all. There will most likely be "monster" stats for Pokemon that do not have "class" stats yet, so you can still catch them, but you can't use them. This also is okay because you'll probably be travelling with a group of about 4 other trainers, and in battles you each use one Pokemon (five on five, usually, another huge difference from the vg). You might even only use one Pokemon your entire career as a trainer, so although you could catch Pokemon, you needn't use them. This will alleviate much stress from not having a certain Pokemon have a "class" writeup yet, though I intend to create many of them. You can use your starter all throughout the game and not need anything else!

Like I also said, the focus will be the story. So, the goal is to stop Team Rocket, not become champion, though that might happen on the way. Your group could be about to beat the champion(s) when the final boss interrupts with a world devastating plan, and you need to stop them. Then you save the world and the game is done, and you have a great Pokemon story to tell.

I really think I've got a good plan; hopefully those of you helping understand. I don't want to seem like I'm overly protective of the ideas that I've created, but I think they will work, and I don't see a reason to make a huge change to the way I think it'll work. But I really appreciate all the input! I hope this will one day (this'll take a long time) be an actual game I can play with my friends, and put here so anybody can play it! Thanks!