Magic Item Daily Attack Question

[Caliber]

So, frex, look at something like the Mordant Weapon (DDI sub required) that has a property like this:

Power (Daily • Acid, Poison): Standard Action. Close blast 3; Strength vs. Fortitude; 3d8 + Strength modifier poison and acid damage.

Does this attack get the magical plus of the weapon added to it? It doesn't have the Weapon keyword ... but it seems strange to not get the bonus of the weapon when explicitly utilizing the weapon's powers doesn't it?

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

PHB page232 says "A magic weapon adds an enhancement bonus to attack rolls and damage rolls [made with the weapon]".

An attack using a weapon's power (or any other item for that matter) is pretty much by definition an attack using that item. It is certainly CONSIDERED to be RAW that the enhancement bonus applies to these attacks since nothing seems to indicate it doesn't. Wands OTOH, the other major category of items with attack powers, all have the implement keyword.

The real problem with supposing that weapons would NOT grant their enhancement bonus is that higher level versions of these items would have basically useless powers. Any attack at paragon or epic tiers that lacks an enhancement bonus is a non-starter and might as well not exist.

 

[Atras]

This attack would not include the Weapon proficiency. It does target Fortitude, so the Weapon prof. shouldn't be missed.

 

[UltimaGabe]

This attack would not include the Weapon proficiency. It does target Fortitude, so the Weapon prof. shouldn't be missed.

Do yo have a page number or quote to back that up? Not that I doubt that's how it was intended, but I can't think of how the wording for when you add a Proficiency bonus could possibly be any different from the wording for when you add a weapon's enhancement bonus. Meaning, I don't see how the rules clarify when you add one and not the other (aside from when a weapon is used as an implement). In other words, how can a power granted by a weapon gain an enhancement bonus to attacks while not gaining a proficiency bonus?

 

[Atras]

I don't have my books handy, but as this attack lacks the Weapon keyword, you definitely don't get the proficiency bonus.

I see the disconnect, and thought it meant that you would not get an enhancement bonus, but then the attack would really be useless at higher levels.

 

[spayne]

Since the power does not have the Weapon keyword, you do not add your weapon's enhancement bonus and you do not get the proficiency bonus.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Since the power does not have the Weapon keyword, you do not add your weapon's enhancement bonus and you do not get the proficiency bonus.

What specific rule are you referring to in drawing this conclusion? I agree you don't get the weapon proficiency bonus but the enhancement bonus actually seems integral to the item used.

 

[UltimaGabe]

I don't have my books handy, but as this attack lacks the Weapon keyword, you definitely don't get the proficiency bonus.

Ah, that's what it was. I agree that it seems intended that you'd get the enhancement bonus- otherwise, like you said, the attacks would be useless- especially when you're making an attack at (at least) 6 points lower than all your others. I just couldn't remember how they differentiated between attacks that get the proficiency bonus, and attacks that don't.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Ah, that's what it was. I agree that it seems intended that you'd get the enhancement bonus- otherwise, like you said, the attacks would be useless- especially when you're making an attack at (at least) 6 points lower than all your others. I just couldn't remember how they differentiated between attacks that get the proficiency bonus, and attacks that don't.

Well, actually....

After doing a decent bit of digging around it looks like there are two sections of the PHB which bear directly on this topic:

A magic weapon adds an enhancement bonus to attack rolls and damage rolls, so a +3 flameburst longbow adds +3 to all attack rolls and damage rolls made with the bow.

Accessories: These keywords identify items used with the power. If you have [...] an enhancement bonus to your attack rolls and damage rolls from a magic weapon or an implement, you add that bonus when you use a power that has the associated keyword.

Furthermore the Mordant Weapon is a unique item. It is AFAIK the only weapon in the entirety of 4e that has an outright attack power. There is one other weapon in AV1 Bahamut's Weapon which has an attack power and it flat out states in the power text that the enhancement bonus applies to the attack roll (it also lacks a weapon keyword and interestingly seems NOT to be designed to add the enhancement bonus to damage). Its possible there are others hidden away here and there. The Mordant Weapon is also an item presented in a module and we might suppose it may have gotten less of a review than items present in the core books.

Overall PHB232 does tell us that magic weapons add an enhancement bonus, but doesn't really say WHEN they would or would not add that bonus. You could take it to mean "any time the item is used in an attack" and AFAICT that would be pretty much consistent with existing items except for 2 things. Bahamut's Weapon seems to indicate the enhancement bonus is NOT automatically applied to weapon powers. Secondly by symmetry why would wands require the implement keyword on their powers? This all kind of implies that the governing rule is PHB55-56 "accessories".

If that is so than the Mordant Weapon's attack power gets no enhancement bonus. Personally I'd go check the errata on that module as they may have added a Weapon keyword to the power and it probably SHOULD have one, but I have to revise my opinion and agree with spayne on this one. Its not the clearest thing in the world, but I think that is the RAW of it.

 

[Amaroq]

I thought that this was made unambiguous on PHB225:

Magic weapons and implements grant their
enhancement bonus to attack rolls and damage rolls
only when you use powers delivered through the
weapon or the implement (or directly from the weapon
or the implement, for items that have attack powers).

The whole bit about the Implement and Weapon keywords is about when to apply the enhancement bonus to powers granted from another source, usually one's class, paragon path, etc.