The New Red-Box...

[Scribble]

For $20.00 I will certainly check it out to satisfy curiosity.

It seems with this new line, WOTC is able to essentially release 4.5 edition without all the baggage that little decimal brings with it.

If the new rules compendium is full of errata/changes then the 4.5 move will be complete.

Not sure I would equate including errata to a .5 edition. There were some pretty fundamental changes from 3e to 3.5 that you wouldn't get with errata.

(Also if they DIDN'T include the errata there would be a lot of complaints there always are when they print a new print run and it doesn't include errata.)

In any case, that's a separate conversation.

 

[Danzauker]

I must disagree with some of this:
(1) It apparently isn't "level zeroes" -- characters start at Level 1.
(2) It isn't just a "teaser" -- players could keep using the included dice and tokens and poster map and DM's advice for many levels if they go on to buy some of the new Essentials line's other items, such as "Rules Compendium" (a 6-inch by 9-inch trade paperback with full core rules); or "Heroes of the Fallen Lands" giving all levels, heroic through epic, for 5 iconic classes and 5 iconic races.

Edit: Oh, and the Power Cards: Players could also keep using the level 1 & 2 power cards as they play their characters through further Levels, as well.

(1) That's not what I meant. What I meant was: the Red Box seems to be the introductory/walkthrough chapter of an adventure/platform videogame. You know where you interactively learn all the controls of the pad, one by one?

(2) This is probably what interests me (and I think other people who own the core books). If the added stuff: tokens, maps, tiles and what not are of good enough quality to warrant the price, I could *possibly* buy the box and ditch the "fast play" rules.

In any case, it's a teaser. The cards are the teaser for the complete power card packs, the tiles are the teaser of the regular tile packages, and so on... all in a box, so one can start play immediately.

 

[w_earle_wheeler]

The new Red Box sounds like a fun product from what I've gathered here. However, since I don't currently have a link to D&D Insider, I'm kind of missing out on some of the free advertising.

The only problem I see with the Red Box right now is that it (supposedly) only covers levels 1 and 2. Maybe it's just because I'm a traditionalist, but like many others here, I'd like to see it go up to at least 3rd level.

As for powers and all that... I really think that for a Red Box product, the players could just pick one of the "builds" that has the powers built in. If there are two build options for each class in the box, that's really enough for a basic product like this. It also makes things simpler for new players while giving them an idea of the customization available in the big books. Also, it cuts down on the number of powers that need to be printed/explain by a little bit.

I thought that the 3.5 basic set and the 4e starter set were both excellent products... as well as Keep on the Shadowfell (though I felt it was overpriced when it first came out, especially for a perfect intro product -- that was later rectified by making it a free [awesome] download).

 

[Ariosto]

Economy says that printing, stocking, advertising, selling ONE product makes for lesser costs than TWO products, so it's more profitable.

It's more profitable IF everybody wants a cheeseburger -- or if you've got a Marxist setup to make sure they get a cheeseburger anyway. Otherwise, "It comes in any color you want, so long as you want black" means losing a sale when someone else offers a real alternative.

Well, people are going to offer Tunnels & Trolls and RuneQuest and Rolemaster anyway. If they followed your logic, Chaosium should not have offered RQ in three versions:
(a) boxed set
(b) soft-bound book
(c) hard-bound book

If the real world followed WotC theory, then perhaps RQ3 should have been a smashing success because it was in so many ways such a break from the first two editions (which had not only won awards but made it the #2 FRPG after AD&D). Or maybe it just wasn't different enough? Avalon Hill designed a RuneQuest: Slayers game that had basically nothing at all to do with Chaosium's classic -- but when down the tubes and into Hasbro's hands without publishing it.

Chaosium, on the other hand, applied the RQ "Basic Role Playing" rules quite successfully and simultaneously to Stormbringer and ElfQuest (plus Hawkmoon, Ringworld, and Call of Cthulhu). The Worlds of Wonder boxed set offered three slimmed-down games in one: Magic World, Future World and Super World.

Each of those appealed to a slightly different audience as well as to some of the same people. That's how it is right to this day with TSR's various D&D packages, and with the "retro clones" inspired by them. Variety is the spice, but compatibility is also a feature -- just as it was with Chaosium's line-up.

GDW also succeeded with different packages of Traveller, from the original boxed set to Starter and Deluxe, and on to The Traveller Book.

One size, shape or color does not necessarily fit all, in an RPG line any more than in a line of cars or computers.

 

[Scribble]

The new Red Box sounds like a fun product from what I've gathered here. However, since I don't currently have a link to D&D Insider, I'm kind of missing out on some of the free advertising.

There's a reason it's called D&D INSIDER- We get the inside scoop before all of you great unwashed!

I'm sure when the release date gets closer, they'll start marketing this in some other way that doesn't involve a paid subscription.

 

[darjr]

If you check it out and don't like it but consider it a decent intro, consider dropping off your copy to 'Toys for Tots'. I hear they are always under stocked with toys for older kids.

 

[bagger245]

(2) This is probably what interests me (and I think other people who own the core books). If the added stuff: tokens, maps, tiles and what not are of good enough quality to warrant the price, I could *possibly* buy the box and ditch the "fast play" rules.

In any case, it's a teaser. The cards are the teaser for the complete power card packs, the tiles are the teaser of the regular tile packages, and so on... all in a box, so one can start play immediately.

At this point, we are better off getting the Essential DT and Monster Vault tokens.

I agree about it being a teaser, but hey, we aren't the audience at all.

 

[coyote6]

I think there are only 4 classes in the box anyway. Each gets 1 encounter power at level 3. Most classes have a choice of 4, which take up a quarter page in the PHB 1 (just checked out the Wizard class entry). So we're talking about a single page en toto. Let's say another page for equipment, and another two for 3rd level monster stat blocks (if they aren't in there already, which I doubt).
You're nowhere near 4 pages unless you factor everything in, and even then...

I think book publishing tends to work in 16 page units, called (IIRC) a "signature". So adding just 4 pages might not be feasible, and adding a full 16 pages would probably be enough to drive the price up.

But IANAP, so I'm just guessing.

 

[Dire Bare]

Emphasis mine... Yes because all the other tries, by WotC, with boxed sets exactly like this (including a 3.5 one with character generation rules, tiles and minis)... worked great.

So, where do you get the idea that previous D&D starter sets failed? Just because you didn't like the format, doesn't really mean anything.

I've been collecting most of the starter sets since 2nd Edition (along with the other books), and if I recall correctly, most if not all of them ranged from providing 1-3 to 1-5 levels of content and no more.

WotC keeps repeating this pattern . . . which tells me that it works, not that it is a failure. While I may not agree with every decision the company makes, it isn't a company run by idiots.

And we have people seriously arguing that only providing 1-2 levels is somehow significantly inferior to providing 1-3 levels?!?!? A one level difference!?!?!

I mean, I know it's our job to overreact on teh interwebs here, but . . . . sheesh!

 

[Dire Bare]

2. That's a very far shot from the original Red Box in all but appearance. Basic D&D Red Box gave you lots of campaign material which would last you for half a year, and still remained to be priced at a tag that was affordable for the 10-12 year olds.

"Far shot"? The new boxed set certainly includes less than the classic Red Box that I grew up with, but I think you exaggerate the difference.

And, most importanly, it's only $20. $20! What do you want for $20?!?! Paper is a LOT more expensive than it was in the 80s.

If WotC had included much more in this new basic set, it wouldn't retail for only $20 and that would work against its purpose.