Subjectivity, Objectivity, and One True Wayism in RPGs

[haakon1]

As in randomly generated postmodernism essays?

The Postmodernism Generator » Communications From Elsewhere

Holy cow, that thing IS my first grad school roommate. He's a professor now, no surprise -- but at John Jay College, the State University of New York's school of criminal justice.

. . .

BTW, sorry for whining about this discussion. All deference to Umbran's moderation, but it's certainly not MY place to criticize what y'all want to discuss. I should have kept my whining to myself.

 

[Snoweel]

BTW, sorry for whining about this discussion. All deference to Umbran's moderation, but it's certainly not MY place to criticize what y'all want to discuss. I should have kept my whining to myself.

I disagree.

However it might have started out, this thread has objectively degenerated into badwrongGeneralRPGDiscussion.

I'm with Marius Delphus.

 

[Starfox]

The concept of true enough, stuck with me. I may or may not be able to know an absolute truth (or be able to verify it), but there are a number of things that are true enough to get the job done and function in the world.

To me, this is the difference between a scientist and an engineer. The engineer wants results, and cares about philosophy only to the point where it affects the result. To an engineer, this discussion is hogwash. The scientists wants truths, and finds a discussion about the nature of what truth is interesting. To a scientist, this discussion is at the very least interesting as a phenomenon, regardless of the views expressed in the discussion.

These are generalizations that have little to do with individual engineers or scientists, obviously. We all have a little of each in us.

In any discussion, you can always come in and say that the very basis of the discussion is a moot point and uninteresting. This is rarely an interesting and productive viewpoint. As long as the discussion continues, it is self-evident that some people find it interesting, and that is all the reason needed to discuss things.

 

[Snoweel]

In any discussion, you can always come in and say that the very basis of the discussion is a moot point and uninteresting.

True, however not in every discussion can you come in and say the thread has veered so far off topic that it doesn't even belong in the forum any more.

The only thing this thread has to do with RPGs is the title.

 

[howandwhy99]

I probably should add to this that I'm often a little mystified that this subject comes up so often when discussing RPG's, which are, for the purposes of pretty much everyone here - a game. And, as a game, what's principally of interest about them is, I would think, that they be enjoyable. And, I would think that of all the things that are probably subjective, the one to which we'd get the widest agreement that it is probably is subjective is the group, "things I enjoy". Yet, invariably, on almost every thread at EnWorld, if it goes long enough we end up in the debate of subjective vs. objective. At one time I just thought this was symptomatic of the larger culture war the gaming culture finds itself in the midst of, but now I'm not so certain. I'm also rather disinclined to accept the easy explanation that its just a matter of people doing the natural human thing and demanding that everyone else enjoy and appreciate the things that they enjoy, although I admit that for the moment this is the most obvious explanation. Still, I'm curious as to what it is about RPG's in particular that provoke the need to debate this question.

I posted twice here on why this thread topic is of direct relevance to roleplaying and RPGs.

It mostly falls into the badwronggamedesign mantra about how historically designed games, which were based upon convergent-focused RPS (however unknowingly), should never be made or played anymore as they can lead to delusion and potential brain damage (or so the theory goes). Conversely, divergent-focused roleplaying-based games are the only design form seemingly "allowed" now. These do not really focus on the nature of truth at all, so I can see why the topic may appear irrelevant, if that is the only point of view of roleplaying one comes to it with.

 

[Starfox]

True, however not in every discussion can you come in and say the thread has veered so far off topic that it doesn't even belong in the forum any more.

In which case you can try to steer it back on track or report it to the moderators. Complaining in-thread is rarely constructive.

:: Is a bit embarrassed noting that he made the thread go even more off track and is in fact complaining, the exact thing he is advocating against ::

 

[Raven Crowking]

In which case you can try to steer it back on track or report it to the moderators. Complaining in-thread is rarely constructive.

:: Is a bit embarrassed noting that he made the thread go even more off track and is in fact complaining, the exact thing he is advocating against ::

This is called "threadcrapping", and should be reported. Consider it done.


RC

 

[Storminator]

Ah... should I break out Wittgenstein's language games

And Wittgenstein was a beery swine
Who was just as schloshed as Schlegel...

PS

 

[Snoweel]

In which case you can try to steer it back on track or report it to the moderators. Complaining in-thread is rarely constructive.

Says who? Complain in-thread and all participants are made aware; report the post to the moderators and they have yet one more vexatious complaint to put up with. Calling commentary 'threadcrapping' doesn't make it so, and is in fact just a clumsy attempt to shape the attitude of the moderators.

:: Is a bit embarrassed noting that he made the thread go even more off track and is in fact complaining, the exact thing he is advocating against ::

Mate it's the internet. If you don't like something you either complain or ignore it - that's your only two options. As far as I can tell, ignore lists aren't for using as intended; they're for public threats. Much like the 'report post' function...

 

[Pseudonym]

As far as I can tell, ignore lists aren't for using as intended; they're for public threats. Much like the 'report post' function...

Perhaps I am an anomaly then, as I don't believe I've ever threatened to put someone on my ignore list or informed them prior to doing so. My list here has been compiled quietly.