What's really at stake in the Edition Wars

[Mallus]

Another (obvious) observation re: Ed. Warz ---hey, I think I found my next PC name!

Arguments about minutia are a part of how many hobbyists enjoy their hobbies. This is hardly exclusive to gaming. Nerds of all stripes argue simply for the pleasure of it.

I imagine opera fans regularly have it out debating baroque vs. bel canto or which singer sang the definite role...

 

[I'm A Banana]

Which is probably for the best. Those things always suck. I'm a little mystified why so many people want them.

I think it's more of a philosophical security blanket that such a thing does exist, and a way to set limits on which sacred cows the new edition actually gets to burn.

That is, it can't burn those that I have already embraced.

If I have decided that gnomes play a key role in the world I've created, and 4e comes out practically bragging about not having gnomes in it as a race, 4e clearly isn't going to support my world.

If, in 5e, the designers say "Dragonborn were silly, monstrous-looking creatures whose link to dragons was poorly explained and not at all justified. For 5e, we're going to go in a direction that supports a more humanoid-looking world, to keep D&D as a brand distinct from various other fare. Dragonborn may come back in a future supplement, but we've focused our energies on orcs for the first PH" then a lot of folks who, in 4e love dragonborn, and who use them extensively in their games, are going to pretty much react in a similar way: "Oh. Looks like 5e isn't going to be the kind of D&D I want to play."

 

[Mistwell]

Where? When? I was a Dragon subscriber and never saw one bit of that. I saw suggestions that we retire old campaigns and start anew.

There were new versions of classes and races with the new mechanics, but there was no guide for converting your 3.X era game to 4Ed like there was for the 2Ed=>3Ed changeover.

There was a series of articles on the topic. Here is one.

Which made those of us who were interested in converting right now ticked off.

The hype was fresh. The game was new. We were set to convert our PCs to the new system and run some adventures...

and we couldn't. Not until some future point uncertain when they decide its time to reintroduce what they excised?

All races were available from the start (though a couple were in the MM). It did not take long to get all the classes out there as well (though obviously not some of the more unusual later-splat-book classes, but then neither did 3e cover those right away).

By the time those elements were brought back into the game, 4Ed had been relegated to dust-catcher status. (Ship had sailed, train had left the station, etc.) The game we wanted to play wasn't the game that was released.

(See the mock Kanye West statement above.)

Yes, I get that not everything was available initially. But your comment was not past tense only. So, to clarify, not everything you wanted to convert was as easily convertible initially as it is now.

 

[Mistwell]

Then they didn't - past tense - offer those things.

They offer them now, yes.

But when 4e came out, no. They didn't offer conversions and all the base classes and races.

By June 2008 you had conversion guides, all races, and almost all classes. How much faster did you want it? Was 3e really that much faster in offering conversions for 2e?

As for conversions, no, they didn't offer them. They said "Just start over again, in all honesty." And hey, they were honest about it. But that's not exactly the best way of getting previous people on board.

Except, that is not accurate. Within a week of the 4e core books coming out in June of 2008, they were offering conversion advice in a series of articles open to the public. Again, here is the first one of them.

 

[diaglo]

By June 2008 you had conversion guides, all races, and almost all classes. How much faster did you want it? Was 3e really that much faster in offering conversions for 2e?

yes. release date for the conversion guide was the same day they released the phb.

edit: the conversion was part of the cd in the phb for the 2000ed.

 

[Mistwell]

yes. release date for the conversion guide was the same day they released the phb.

edit: the conversion was part of the cd in the phb for the 2000ed.

Diaglo, June 2008 IS the same month the 4e core books were released. The first conversion article was 6/13/2008. according to that link The core three books were 6/6/2008 according to wikipedia. So, from what I can tell, it came out the first week.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Those conversions were only available online. By the time the one you linked us to had been released, Dragon was 9 months out of print. The only people who got them were those who went looking on WotC's site.

The 2Ed-3Ed conversion was available in the stores.

All races were available from the start (though a couple were in the MM). It did not take long to get all the classes out there as well (though obviously not some of the more unusual later-splat-book classes, but then neither did 3e cover those right away).

I won't get into the PHB/MM distinction again- its been covered ad nauseam. Suffice it to say, "They're in the MM!" isn't going to fly for everyone.

However, the Druid and Barbarian aren't some "unusual later-splat-book-classes." The former has been in the PHB since the mid 1970s, and the latter was an expansion class in 1Ed and was a standard class by 3Ed.

 

[Jack99]

Those conversions were only available online. By the time the one you linked us to had been released, Dragon was 9 months out of print. The only people who got them were those who went looking on WotC's site.

The 2Ed-3Ed conversion was available in the stores.

Considering Dragon Magazine probably wasn't selling much more than 50/60k at that time, there is a good chance that more people checked out WOtC's website free conversion over buying the conversion in Dragon Magazine.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Considering Dragon Magazine probably wasn't selling much more than 50/60k at that time, there is a good chance that more people checked out WOtC's website free conversion over buying the conversion in Dragon Magazine.

Dragon only had press releases regarding upcoming design changes.

The actual conversion guide was a free and separate booklet sitting on shelves in every game store that sold the game, usually right next to the game itself, but occasionally at the registers. I know of at least one store that simply put one in your bag when you bought the game, so you didn't even have to ask about it.

IOW, you didn't have to go looking for it, it was there in plain sight.

In favor of the 4Ed conversion, though, I must admit this: that guide is still out there, while the 3Ed booklets eventually ran out. Such is the nature of digital media.

 

[Jack99]

Dragon only had press releases regarding upcoming design changes.

The actual conversion guide was a free and separate booklet sitting on shelves in every game store that sold the game, usually right next to the game itself, but occasionally at the registers. I know of at least one store that simply put one in your bag when you bought the game, so you didn't even have to ask about it.

IOW, you didn't have to go looking for it, it was there in plain sight.

In favor of the 4Ed conversion, though, I must admit this: that guide is still out there, while the 3Ed booklets eventually ran out. Such is the nature of digital media.

Fair enough, we didn't get it over here, in the stores, which I why I didn't know. But your original argument, which was what I quoted, said something else.

Another point is this: Compared to 2000, a lot more people buy their RPG books online and rarely show up in the gaming store. Also, the amount of people using WotC's website has dramatically increased between 2000 and 2008.

So it does make sense (IMO ofc) to have moved conversion guides to the net.