WotC and brick and mortar retail stores - Greg Leeds weighs in

[Dannyalcatraz]

Because few people have an actual grasp of what it costs to produce a given product or offer a given service, so even if they like what they're buying, they're likely to underpay.

 

[haakon1]

Of altruism and free riders

Because few people have an actual grasp of what it costs to produce a given product or offer a given service, so even if they like what they're buying, they're likely to underpay.

You assume people are cheap and like to be free riders. The tragedy of the commons and all that.

That is, you're thinking "homo economicus", that life is all about maximizing utility and so if people can cheat/steal/get away with underpaying, they will.

I'd say that's true to some extent, or for some people, but humanity is more complicated. We are also very much social animals, and one thing people HATE more than anything is a free rider. From social psychology I've read, people will give us costs to themselves to punish someone who is seen as a free rider/getting away with something.

In D&D terms, you are saying man's default alignment is CN/NE. I'm saying it's LN/NG.

(As an aside, anti-free-rider is a really common appeal in political arguments, I think because it's so deeply upsetting, at an animal level, to see people "getting something they don't deserve". In the US health care debate, I see both sides couching their arguments in these terms.)

In fact, come to think of it, the heat of this whole discussion has been about free riders.

-- On the one side, the FLGS owners who think gamers are taking a free ride by finding out about games in their shops, then buying online.

-- On the other side, the gamers who think FLGS are unnecessary middlemen who are ripping them off and laying a guilt trip on them to get their money.

As for businesses that do survive on an altruism model:

1) Public radio and TV stations in the US

2) US theatrical productions (outside NYC and Vegas). These are nearly always supported by local bigwigs and businesses. In Seattle, some even have "name your own price" matinees, where people come in and pay whatever they want for a seat -- some pay $5, some $100.

3) Thrift stores for charities (relying on donations for their merchandise).

So theoretically, perhaps an FLGS should re-incorporate as a public service non-profit? I suspect, as with newspapers, many of them are close to non-profit in their financials, though not their incorporation.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

You assume people are cheap and like to be free riders. The tragedy of the commons and all that.

Did you actually read what I posted before quoting it?

I said

...few people have an actual grasp of what it costs to produce a given product or offer a given service, so even if they like what they're buying, they're likely to underpay.

IOW, I'm saying that even the best intentioned people tend to underestimate actual costs involved in getting a product or service to market, and will thus tend to want to underpay for it.

As for businesses that do survive on an altruism model:

1) Public radio and TV stations in the US

Enlightened self-interest isn't really altruism, and the corporate co-sponsors get what economists and accountants call "goodwill"- a form of positive publicity that can be leveraged for profit.

2) US theatrical productions (outside NYC and Vegas). These are nearly always supported by local bigwigs and businesses. In Seattle, some even have "name your own price" matinees, where people come in and pay whatever they want for a seat -- some pay $5, some $100.

There are nice little tax write-offs that you can get for contributing to the arts in this form, both as a corporation or as a private individual.

Because of certain tax loopholes, bigwigs are often sponsors of the arts in order to offset- aka "hide"- profits.

 

[Dire Bare]

Yeah, way to put the best foot forward WOTC, use the setting everyone knows and loves from growing up with and/or reading all its best seller novels -- Eberron -- and a rule set that doesn't correspond to any edition of D&D.

That's the experience people are looking for when they are looking for D&D -- playing robot people, auto healing for standing around, and PvP pit fighting.

As I stated, the game is low profile and the original point stands, that there isn't a massive, major D&D game to induce folks to check out the tabletop version.

But, FWIW, the game is based on the 3rd Edition ruleset. There are changes, of course, but it's pretty obvious to anyone who's played 3rd Edition, which was the current edition when the game launched.

And, don't let your personal dislike of the game color what others may think of it. While I've certainly heard a few folks bitch about the game on the intarwebs, it's actually a pretty authentic D&D experience as far as video games go. And with the new free-to-play model, it has enjoyed a resurgence in popularity and is getting good reviews from the various game mags and sites.

 

[Dire Bare]

Why not?

Go ahead and open a gamestore with altruism as your major economic model. Good luck!

 

[haakon1]

Did you actually read what I posted before quoting it?

Message received. Conversation done.

 

[S'mon]

3? Orc's Nest, Forbidden Planet, and the one near the British Museum, eh? All in the area between Covent Garden and the British Museum. I worked in that neighborhood too, when I lived in the UK.

The thing is, Forbidden Planet is a great sci fi geek store, but not much of a gamer's store. The Orc's Nest I liked, but it's actually kinda small (compared to American stores) and had a decent, but not extensive, collection of D&D ware.

So I think central London actually has a dearth of good game stores, unless things have changed in the past decade.

Hmm, I don't exactly disagree but it's 2 more than anywhere else in the UK I can think of! Obviously Leisure Games in Finchley is the only London games store that is at all comparable to its US equivalents, partly because it has the shelf space to allocate. But it's too far for me to travel more than once a year. Orc's Nest is very small, unsurprising given its central location, but I did pick up the new Labyrinth Lord there last Wednesday since it's not on amazon.co.uk and was cheaper & quicker than lulu.