What are your ideal design goals for D&D?

[Lanefan]

I'd prefer just to keep the main 4 classes without customization. If there needs to be customization, then I'd prefer to have "tweaks" to the big 4.

For example, there would be the plain fighter as the basis for all combat classes. A paladin would be defined as a fighter that had a code of honor, couldn't use missile weapons (violates code of honor), gets a charisma bonus to saving throws, and gets lay on hands once per day. Essentially, instead of being a completely separate class, it would be a couple of benefits and a couple of drawbacks added to one of the big 4 classes.

For some classes that are obvious offshoots of other classes, this is fine. But how do you handle oddities like the Monk or 1e-version Bard...or do you just ditch 'em and move on?

One of the side-effects of 3e spelling out exactly how to make magic items and giving each one a price tag was that it created a magic item economy.

While I'm willing to blame 3e (and 4e) for anything I can get away with, this time 3e is not the culprit. 3e certainly made item creation easier, but the price tags have been hanging off magic items since 1e or earlier, and the magic-item economy has always kinda been there.

In older editions, making cool magic items was usually difficult and buying them was nearly impossible, so those mountains of gold couldn't be easily converted into a cool magic item. I'd like to see a return to that approach. Cool magic items exist, but it's difficult to get your hands on them.

In theory this works.

In practice, realism quickly scotches it.

Cool magic items exist, we're agreed on that. So I, Lanefan the Fighter, go out into the field, clobber some bad guys, and come back to town with a cool magic item: a nice shiny....wand. I'm a Fighter. Wands make very poor weapons. I'm incapable of making it do anything else for me, so now what? Well, I happen to know this Magic-User who could make far better use of this wand than I ever will; and who is willing to buy it off me for cash. How is anything going to stop me from selling it, even if such is illegal in the game setting?

And it naturally follows that if I can go out and sell a magic item to someone, I won't be the only one doing so; there's lots of other adventurers in the world...which means I might also be able to buy items I can use, or even trade items straight up for one another and skip the cash step. And bingo - there's yer magic item economy.

The caveat is, of course, that you won't always be able to buy exactly what you want or need, as it'll be random what's for sale at any given time and place.

Lan-"anyone got a +3 defender longsword they'd like to part with cheap?"-efan

 

[Doug McCrae]

While I'm willing to blame 3e (and 4e) for anything I can get away with, this time 3e is not the culprit. 3e certainly made item creation easier, but the price tags have been hanging off magic items since 1e or earlier, and the magic-item economy has always kinda been there.

You're right, it's in OD&D. Magic item creation, and use, is an important feature of the magic-user class in OD&D, in fact I would say item use is actually more important than spell casting. This, I believe, is why the class is called 'magic-user' rather than wizard or magician.

The whole plethora of enchanted items lies at the magic-users beck and call, save the arms and armor of the fighters (see, however, Elves); Magic-Users may arm themselves with daggers only. Wizards and above may manufacture for their own use (or for sale) such items as potions, scrolls, and just about anything else magical. Costs are commensurate with the value of the item, as is the amount of game time required to enchant it.

- OD&D, page 6.

 

[Elton Robb]

I disagree with the people in WotC on points of flavor and not rules.

 

[Shades of Green]

I'd love to see Hasbro/WotC put out a simple, single-box version of D&D that would be available at big stores like Walmart, Target, Toys-R-Us, etc. If that business model works for other classic games, why not D&D?

Seconded.

I'd love to see an ultra-streamlined, fully-playable-out-of-the-box version of D&D sold in mass-market stores and built for the mass-market casual player (rather than for dedicated gamers). Make the rules simple, chargen quick and the game playable by total newbies within a day (or even better, an hour) of opening its box.

Include everything required for play in the same basic box: rule booklets, dice, a few pre-painted plastic miniatures, a battlemat and markers, starter adventure... Make sure that the rules are clear and readable and that the classes, magic items, spells/powers and monsters clear and cool archetypes. Both chargen, leveling and prep should be very easy and not in the least time-consuming.

Everything else - release as expansion sets and/or as more detailed rulebooks. The casual gamers will use the basic set and maybe a few expansion sets; the hard-core gamers will buy the rulebooks as well.

I'd love to see a version of D&D that 'non-gamers' can play for many evenings of beer-n'-pretzels fun without committing too much money or time to it.

 

[WheresMyD20]

For some classes that are obvious offshoots of other classes, this is fine. But how do you handle oddities like the Monk or 1e-version Bard...or do you just ditch 'em and move on?

I don't think there's a need to do every class that's ever been a "core" class. I would drop the monk- or at least move it to an Oriental Adventures supplement.

For the bard, I'd be inclined to make him similar to the C&C Bard- a variant fighter with limited weapon and armor selection, but with bardic knowledge and music abilities. Essentially, he'd be a warrior-poet or viking skald type of character.

The caveat is, of course, that you won't always be able to buy exactly what you want or need, as it'll be random what's for sale at any given time and place.

I think that's the crux of it. If adventurers are somewhat rare individuals, and *successful* adventurers are even more rare, then the market for magic items wouldn't be an efficient market.

 

[CleverNickName]

I'd love to see an ultra-streamlined, fully-playable-out-of-the-box version of D&D sold in mass-market stores and built for the mass-market casual player (rather than for dedicated gamers). Make the rules simple, chargen quick and the game playable by total newbies within a day (or even better, an hour) of opening its box.

Include everything required for play in the same basic box: rule booklets, dice, a few pre-painted plastic miniatures, a battlemat and markers, starter adventure...

Wasn't this already done? I seem to remember a "Dungeons and Dragons" board game that came out in the early 90's, a little while after the Rules Cyclopedia came out. I never played it, but I remember seeing it on the shelf at Toys 'R' Us.

 

[Fifth Element]

You're right, it's in OD&D. Magic item creation, and use, is an important feature of the magic-user class in OD&D, in fact I would say item use is actually more important than spell casting. This, I believe, is why the class is called 'magic-user' rather than wizard or magician.

- OD&D, page 6.

I love it when Doug pulls out quotes from the oldest of old-school books that talk about things in ways many people would claim are not old-school. It's a gift, really.

 

[Man in the Funny Hat]

There is nothing preventing any of us from attempting to fulfill these design ideals. You don't have to be a professional game designer to take enormous strides in achieving these goals. You don't need to make money at it either to make it "profitable". Heck, attempting to design/redesign the game rules themselves has to be at least as fun an excercise as simply attemting to "build" a character in some versions of the rules. Less talk about not having our ideal GIVEN to us; more action in MAKING/TAKING what we want from the game. I'm just saying...

 

[Man in the Funny Hat]

I think this is one of the reasons there were so few "buffing" spells back in the old editions - too much bookkeeping. Or maybe it was just a happy coincidence that there were so few.

I had plenty of players in 1E and 2E who researched bigger, better, and more buff spells. Mostly they were used for F/M pc's and the results definitely pushed the envelope. Players could have gone MUCH further than they did with buffs but I believe were ultimately restrained by me as a DM. Just because it was possible to break the game doesn't mean it had to be allowed. 3E was practically built on the concept of buffs. You got buffs from spells, from class abilities, from magic items... Buff, buff, buff your way to fun!

It wasn't coincidence.

One of the side-effects of 3e spelling out exactly how to make magic items and giving each one a price tag was that it created a magic item economy.

It was still up to DM's whether they wanted to allow that magic item economy to swallow up and dominate their game. Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it has to be allowed.

In a D&D game, PCs will eventually acquire mountains of gold. In 3e, the default assumption is that they will buy magic items with it. I'm not sure if this is what the designers intended, but it is what happened in many games.

One thing is certain - PC's need to be able to BUY things with their mountains of gold or there's no point in obtaining it.

In older editions, making cool magic items was usually difficult and buying them was nearly impossible, so those mountains of gold couldn't be easily converted into a cool magic item. I'd like to see a return to that approach. Cool magic items exist, but it's difficult to get your hands on them.

I'd phrase it as a desire to see the game return to the idea of magic as being infrequent and wonderous, rather than a common, even pedestrian commodity.

 

[CleverNickName]

One thing is certain - PC's need to be able to BUY things with their mountains of gold or there's no point in obtaining it.

In the BECM days, we used our giant piles of gold to buy land, castles, and armies. But that style of play seems to have gone the way of the dodo.