subdue rules?

[Celestian]

I've been trying to find rules on knocking someone out, or beating them down w/o killing them but I can't seem to find anything about it in the phb or dmg, do such rules exist in 4e?

 

[Rechan]

I believe the rule is that when you reduce someone to 0 HP you can decide to render them unconscious or kill them.

 

[Hawkeye]

[No message]

 

[Tuft]

Yep, you can fry someone with a lightning bolt, burn them with radiant energy, stab them with multiple sharp implements, crush their bones with various blunt objects or fry their minds with awesome psychic powers and all of it can be considered non lethal if the last point is called to be non lethal.

Hawkeye

Actually, it ties in neatly with the concept of Martial Healing, as presented - all damage up till the final blow isn't physical, but simply lowered morale. That's why the proper encouragement can get you back on your feet.

 

[Hawkeye]

Actually, it ties in neatly with the concept of Martial Healing, as presented - all damage up till the final blow isn't physical, but simply lowered morale. That's why the proper encouragement can get you back on your feet.

So that fireball that just blasted your party only hurt your feelings?

Hawkeye

 

[Mephistopheles]

Actually, it ties in neatly with the concept of Martial Healing, as presented - all damage up till the final blow isn't physical, but simply lowered morale. That's why the proper encouragement can get you back on your feet.

BBEG (DM): The hand of the wizard is enveloped in green energy as he speaks some impossible words and then points at Torrick. The green energy extends from his hand as a thin ray and strikes Torrick in the chest. The fighter feels the green energy working to rip his body apart.
Torrick (Ben): Mumsy!
DM: Ben, Torrick is hit by the wizard's disintegrate spell for 50 points of damage.
Ben: Ouch.
DM: Is Torrick still standing?
Ben: Yes, but only just.
DM: Okay, Torrick is up next.
Torrick (Ben): Chums, I just been partially disintegrated; any words of encouragement you can offer would be much appreciated.

I've accepted the way 4E works, but there is a certain dissonance involved in situations such as non-lethal disintegration - bounty hunters across the galaxy approve, however, as they can now have their cake and eat it too.

 

[Piratecat]

I think Tuft has it backwards. The fireball, and lots of attacks, do actual damage - but so long as you have hit points you can stay on your feet and keep fighting. Likewise, someone healed by martial healing is a lot like Die Hard's John McClane -- physically beat to crap but still able to beat down a whole lot of enemies. The only thing that hit points measure is how long you can stay in the fight, not how much damage your body has already taken.

That's how subdue works. Maybe they're hanging on to the brink of unconsciousness, or maybe they're just completely demoralized, but your final blow puts them over the edge into uselessness.

In this regard it's very different from earlier editions, and my analogy isn't perfect. Like any hit point discussion, your brain sort of hurts if you think about it too hard. Still, it works for my own suspension of disbelief.

 

[Saeviomagy]

I've accepted the way 4E works, but there is a certain dissonance involved in situations such as non-lethal disintegration - bounty hunters across the galaxy approve, however, as they can now have their cake and eat it too.

I think that using magically dealt-damage is probably the weakest way to argue this point. After all, it's magic. There's no logic stopping the fighter from resisting being disintegrated by sheer bloody mindedness or grit (and then being mentally or physically fatigued from doing so, something which some words of encouragement could definitely help with), and there's absolutely nothing stopping the disintegration from simply not disintegrating vital organs in order to incapacitate. Hell, 3e even had a feat to allow precisely that.

 

[Teemu]

I really like the way 4e handles subduing enemies. The players aren't penalized for not killing the opposition or it's not the suboptimal choice. Makes it easier to play less bloodthirsty characters.

 

[chitzk0i]

For a reference, check page 295 of the PHB.