Pathfinder 1E Gauging interest in a romero style zombie setting for Pathfinder fantasy, not modern

[Trollitc]

As some of you may know, I'm developing a source book (Pathfinder compatible) for a high fantasy world that's been devastated by a zombie apocalypse.

I'm interested in learning who's interested by this. Regardless I plan on forging ahead because I'm having a grand old time doing it and my players really seem to be enjoying it.

Some specifics for the world I'm building.

The zombies are the slow kind. The are driven by a hunger to feed on warm blooded flesh and that alone. A bite to a human is 100% fatal, resulting in a new zombie within days. Yes, there's a cure but it's just been introduced.

The actual apocalyptic event happened 100 years in this world's past.

It's a highly political world with four major races: Humans, Dwarves, Elves and Orcs (a new player character race I've developed). The Human portion of the world is currently controlled by clerics belonging to The Order of the White Cloth, who may not be interested in seeing a cure appear.

Wizards in the Human realms must be licensed by the Order. Unlicensed magic users or non-compliance with the Order results in them withdrawing their clerics (who can destroy undead) from villages/towns/cities.

There's a whole lot more going on in this world but I don't want to write a novel here.

If this sort of a world peaks your interest, let me know.

Also, here's a bunch of PDFs I've already put together. If some of you are interested in taking a look and wouldn't mind commenting publicly on them either here or on DriveThruRPG, let me know and I'll see about getting some review copies out.

-Ben

 

[ruemere]

There is a limited supply of bodies to create zombies.
Dead flesh tends to decay pretty fast.
Slow zombies are slow, and under heroic system of d20, are unlikely to persevere.
Fantasy world cities are unlikely to sustain cities large crowds, much less large numbers of zombies.
Zombies are weak, unchallenging and ultimately boring opponents (and L4D zombies strain believability to the extreme, while still remaining boring users of let's-surround-them tactic).

--

Given the above, could you give us a hint whether you have addressed these issues, and possibly, how?

Regards,
Ruemere

 

[Stormonu]

The zombies are the slow kind. The are driven by a hunger to feed on warm blooded flesh and that alone. A bite to a human is 100% fatal, resulting in a new zombie within days. Yes, there's a cure but it's just been introduced.

If 1 point of damage kills you in this game, I can't see a lot of interest.

Also, a lot of people tend to forget the impact this has on the animal kingdom. Are all animals immune, some immune (perhaps only being carriers) or are none immune (which causes all kinds of problems when you think about scavengers and flies...).

 

[Trollitc]

Hey Reumere,

I'll do more than hint. Oh and sorry for the late reply. For some reason my subscription to various posts on this forum never seem to work.

The zombies of Aruneus are long lasting - they've been infected by a form of contagion which helps preserve their flesh. Over the course of 100 to 110 years they do decay to useless piles of bones. As they do they go through several stages.

They can regenerate fairly well, unless enough damage to the brain is done, they're a bit hard to kill.

Once the initial event happened (AA 0 - 2) human population dropped from 8,500,000 to 160k. Over a wide area humans are scattered and just starting to regroup. Cities are very small, walled and as the zombie population drops with the 100 year mark slowly starting to grow as agriculture and new advances in lighter than air transport take hold.

The world as a whole has gone from 11 million + sentient creatures to 800k sentient creatures.

Yes, zombies are slow and after about level 5 they don't pose a significant challenge to an average party in small numbers. Hordes are best run from if possible.

Like the best zombie movies and books though, after a bit of survival the story ceases to be about mere survival and more about the political and social effects on the living beings left over to deal with the mess.

There's a wide spectrum of political unrest, racial tensions, religious tensions and various factions pulling the PCs in different directions. There will be enough going on in this world that the zombies are at first a danger but always a setting piece - something that makes the world interesting to exist in.

Player characters will have plenty of adventures waiting for them and also a ton or roleplaying opportunities. Moral choices, seemingly good factions going head to head, the survival of a few vs the survival of many and so forth.

Does that help? If you're really interested, there's a slightly out of date wiki at http://www.trollitc.com/aruneus and I'd be happy to send over a complimentary copy of "The World of Aruneus - Contagion Infected Zombies" if you'd like to have a look. All I ask is that you comment about it, either privately or publicly.

-Ben

There is a limited supply of bodies to create zombies.
Dead flesh tends to decay pretty fast.
Slow zombies are slow, and under heroic system of d20, are unlikely to persevere.
Fantasy world cities are unlikely to sustain cities large crowds, much less large numbers of zombies.
Zombies are weak, unchallenging and ultimately boring opponents (and L4D zombies strain believability to the extreme, while still remaining boring users of let's-surround-them tactic).

--

Given the above, could you give us a hint whether you have addressed these issues, and possibly, how?

Regards,
Ruemere

 

[Trollitc]

Hi Stormonu,

Thanks for the response.

If 1 point of damage kills you in this game, I can't see a lot of interest.

Well, 1 pt kills you if you're a human. And, at the start of the campaign I'm working on (the first module should be available mid-late July) the party will start with several prototypes of the cure and a request to help distribute them to underground factions vying against the dominant religious sect to cure the problem, not simply control it through main force.

As the campaign proceeds and if the party succeeds the cure will become more readily available for cheaper than the initial cost.

Also, a lot of people tend to forget the impact this has on the animal kingdom. Are all animals immune, some immune (perhaps only being carriers) or are none immune (which causes all kinds of problems when you think about scavengers and flies...).

I haven't forgotten. Everything is effected. Livestock, pests, dragons - anything warm blooded is in danger of some kind. The ecosystem has been harshly effected. Almost as many died of starvation and disease as did at the mouths of the undead - particularly of the non-human races, Orcs, Elves and Dwarves.

-Ben

 

[ruemere]

[...]
Does that help? If you're really interested, there's a slightly out of date wiki at http://www.trollitc.com/aruneus and I'd be happy to send over a complimentary copy of "The World of Aruneus - Contagion Infected Zombies" if you'd like to have a look. All I ask is that you comment about it, either privately or publicly.

-Ben

Please allow me a few days to browse through the content of wiki. I'm a bit busy now, still, I'll try to come back with a few comments.

Regards,
Ruemere

 

[Trollitc]

Please allow me a few days to browse through the content of wiki. I'm a bit busy now, still, I'll try to come back with a few comments.

Regards,
Ruemere

Well... *looks at watch* a few days?

Please take as much time as you want! You're doing me a huge favor by looking at what I've pulled together so far. I'm open to any constructive criticism!

-Ben

 

[ruemere]

I have had a look at your site. Allow me to share a few comments.

1. There are no "faces" and sites to start playing from.
"Faces" - public figures capable of initiating various plots, sponsoring adventurers, starting wars, representing factions.
"Sites" - cities, countries, important locales.

2. Zombies as written are too weak to influence history. D20 system allows characters to burn cities - it would be trivial to incinerate thousands of zombies. Bah, even single properly buffed fighter would be untouchable.

3. Zombie rules are very vague. For example:
- moan does not allow to actually guess the numbers and possible reaction time. GM is forced to invent an abstract number to reflect zombie demographic.
- d20 operates on certain abstract principles. Sudden switch from "deduct ihtpoints" to "manage a headshot" is not welcome, as it does not fit with the rest of the system. Possible alternatives: specialized combat maneuver. Massive damage threshold.

4. One organization is not capable of ruling entire world, especially one fragmented to such extreme. For example, we have a so called "global village" now, and nations all over the world are still separate entities.

5. Witchunts make for a fine idea, however, progressing from a stage of "burn a wizard" to siege mentality of "burn all wizards" requires tremendous influence prior to such change. Given resources of proficient spellcasters, this is next to impossible.
I know that George Lucas claimed to pull such trick with Jedi, but (a) Lucas cheated in the worst possible way ("It happened because I deemed so"), (b) Jedi are amateurs compared to arcane spellcasters.


My suggestions for you would be as follows:

1. Start with a locale.

2. Zombies are bad. Try to make them only a symptom of something deeper. Good reference points for starting research would be Bubonic Plague and Black Death.

3. Change the rules. Limit yourself to d20. Replace vague rules with new ones, capable of producing hard numbers.

Moan (Su): verbal and telepathic call with a range of up to one mile. 80% chance for d20 zombies to appear within d6 hours. Decrease chance by 10% each time Moan is used. On a percentage roll of 01, a dormant horde of zombies is awakened: d100 zombies appear, and the chance for Moan to work is reset back to 80%.

4. If you want a divine crusade against arcanists, have a look at how crusades started. Read about Torquemada and Savonarola, and cult of personality. You need charismatic leaders, strong backing from existing rulers and special circumstances.

5. You also need arcanists who support new order. D20 has been designed with wizards and clerics doing different things.


Regards,
Ruemere

 

[Trollitc]

Ruemere,

Thanks for taking the time and effort to read and comment. I am going to have to respectfully disagree with you on a number of points.

I have had a look at your site. Allow me to share a few comments.

1. There are no "faces" and sites to start playing from.
"Faces" - public figures capable of initiating various plots, sponsoring adventurers, starting wars, representing factions.
"Sites" - cities, countries, important locales.

True - keep in mind that this is a work in progress. I have a great cartographer working on an atlas style map with me and once that's complete Aruneus will have it's face(s).

2. Zombies as written are too weak to influence history. D20 system allows characters to burn cities - it would be trivial to incinerate thousands of zombies. Bah, even single properly buffed fighter would be untouchable.

No more or less trivial than it would be to burn and incinerate lots of cities in an major "real life" war. Higher level characters do find zombies more of a hindrance than a threat - but the world is not full of higher level characters. It's full of people like you and me, who are not properly buffed fighters.

3. Zombie rules are very vague. For example:
- moan does not allow to actually guess the numbers and possible reaction time. GM is forced to invent an abstract number to reflect zombie demographic.

You have a good point.

- d20 operates on certain abstract principles. Sudden switch from "deduct ihtpoints" to "manage a headshot" is not welcome, as it does not fit with the rest of the system. Possible alternatives: specialized combat maneuver. Massive damage threshold.

Is not welcome by you or some portion of the community. The folks who've play tested this (either with me or in their own groups) found it quite workable and enjoyed the added Romero-esque feel I was going for.

4. One organization is not capable of ruling entire world, especially one fragmented to such extreme. For example, we have a so called "global village" now, and nations all over the world are still separate entities.

Probably true - but one organization isn't ruling the world, just three Human kingdoms. Think of oh. . . the catholic church in modern US or African politics. They may not be the rulers of the world, but they are influencing the lives of every single person in large political areas.

5. Witchunts make for a fine idea, however, progressing from a stage of "burn a wizard" to siege mentality of "burn all wizards" requires tremendous influence prior to such change. Given resources of proficient spellcasters, this is next to impossible.

Or tremendous stress which would induce a population to follow dictates from a seemingly safe source. I can think of lots of political leaders who rose to power on a promise, made good on that promise but also introduced "burn the wizard" doctrines which were followed. Think of just about any fascist regime in the 20th century, or any dictatorship.

I know that George Lucas claimed to pull such trick with Jedi, but (a) Lucas cheated in the worst possible way ("It happened because I deemed so"), (b) Jedi are amateurs compared to arcane spellcasters.

This I agree with wholeheartedly.

I can understand you not liking a zombie genre high-fantasy game. That's fine. But do keep in mind that this is just that and I'm also trying to conform to a few standard zombie rules based on George A. Romero's model. Slow zombies, brain must be destroyed, one bite fatal.

-Ben

My suggestions for you would be as follows:

1. Start with a locale.

2. Zombies are bad. Try to make them only a symptom of something deeper. Good reference points for starting research would be Bubonic Plague and Black Death.

3. Change the rules. Limit yourself to d20. Replace vague rules with new ones, capable of producing hard numbers.

Moan (Su): verbal and telepathic call with a range of up to one mile. 80% chance for d20 zombies to appear within d6 hours. Decrease chance by 10% each time Moan is used. On a percentage roll of 01, a dormant horde of zombies is awakened: d100 zombies appear, and the chance for Moan to work is reset back to 80%.

4. If you want a divine crusade against arcanists, have a look at how crusades started. Read about Torquemada and Savonarola, and cult of personality. You need charismatic leaders, strong backing from existing rulers and special circumstances.

5. You also need arcanists who support new order. D20 has been designed with wizards and clerics doing different things.


Regards,
Ruemere

 

[Psychotic Jim]

I haven't looked at your stuff, but one passing thought given the casualty rates in zombie apocalypse. In a highly lethal setting with lots of PCs deaths and as long as it takes in 3.X to make a character, I think you should make some suggestions for dealing with a fair amount of PC deaths. TSR's Dark Sun (not a zombie setting but still pretty lethal) had a sort of linked background between multiple back-up PCs (who were all generated beforehand ath the same time) called a character tree. Does your setting do anything like that?