Poison Immunity

[Xeterog]

If you are immune to poison, how does that work with a power with the poison keyword?

(the following examples are purely made up and I don't know if anything has these specifics)

given the following, how much damage does one take (assume all of the attacks have the poison keyword)

1) 15 damage + immobliized (save ends)
2) 15 poison damage + Immobilized (save ends)
3) 15 damage + 10 ongoing poison
4) 10 damage + 5 poison damage + ongoing 5 damage
5) 10 damage + 5 poison damage + ongoing 5 poison damage

I'm guessing it would be
1) 15 (not immobilized)
2) 0 (not immobilized)
3) 15 (no onogoing)
4) 10 + 5 ongoing
5) 10 + no ongoing

Because of the immunity rule players locally think that you are only immune to the non-damaging effects of poison powers...but still take the damage, so all the answers above would be 15 damage (but no other effects, not even the untyped 5 ongoing in #4)

Relevant rules I could find:

[sblock=Immune(MM2)]A creature that is immune to a damage type (such as cold or fire), a condition (such as dazed or petrified), or another specific effect (such as disease or forced movement) is not affected by it. A creature that is immune to charm, fear, illusion, poison, or sleep is not affected by the nondamaging effects of a power that has that keyword. A creature that is immune to gaze is not affected by powers that have that keyword.[/sblock]

[sblock= Poison(MM2)]A Damage Type[/sblock]

[sblock=Poison Powers(PHB3)]A poison power delivers a nondamaging poisonous effect, deals poison damage, or both.[/sblock]

 

[Black Knight Irios]

Poison is special beast b/c there is poison damage (a damage type) and poison effects. In the case of poison immunity both are prevented.

Let's apply this to your examples:

1) 15 damage + immobliized (save ends)
2) 15 poison damage + Immobilized (save ends)
3) 15 damage + 10 ongoing poison
4) 10 damage + 5 poison damage + ongoing 5 damage
5) 10 damage + 5 poison damage + ongoing 5 poison damage

This happens if you have poison immunity:
1) 15 damage
2) nothing
3) 15 damage
4) 10 damage + 5 ongoing damage
5) 10 damage

 

[Nessim]

The creature would take no damage or suffer any effects with the poison keyword.

So in your examples it would go like this:
1) 0 (not immobilized)
2) 0 (not immobilized)
3) 0 (no onogoing)
4) 0 + 0 ongoing
5) 0 + no ongoing

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Poison is special beast b/c there is poison damage (a damage type) and poison effects. In the case of poison immunity both are prevented.

Let's apply this to your examples:



This happens if you have poison immunity:
1) 15 damage
2) nothing
3) 15 damage
4) 10 damage + 5 ongoing damage
5) 10 damage

Yup, this is correct. All that is required to adjudicate it is the 'immune' rule. Nondamaging poison effects are ignored, damage isn't. This makes poison damage a bit unique in that it can't really be avoided, except by general immunity or resistance.

 

[DracoSuave]

The creature would take no damage or suffer any effects with the poison keyword.

So in your examples it would go like this:
1) 0 (not immobilized)
2) 0 (not immobilized)
3) 0 (no onogoing)
4) 0 + 0 ongoing
5) 0 + no ongoing

PHB3 rules for immunity do not work this way.

 

[Unferth]

Yup, this is correct. All that is required to adjudicate it is the 'immune' rule. Nondamaging poison effects are ignored, damage isn't. This makes poison damage a bit unique in that it can't really be avoided, except by general immunity or resistance.

I agree the summarized results are correct, but I'm not following what you mean by poison damage being unavoidable. Poison resistance or immunity can certainly stop poison damage - it just doesn't stop damage that doesn't have the poison type, whether or not the attack has the poison keyword. As shown in scenarios 2 and 5.

So if you look at a power like the seeker's Thorn Cloud Shot, poison immunity doesn't matter against the base hit (1[W] + Wisdom modifier damage) but does matter against the zone (Any creature that ends its turn within the zone takes poison damage equal to your Wisdom modifier.)

For the warden's Form of the Dread Serpent daily, the attack has the poison keyword and does poison damage only. A poison immune enemy ignores all the damage, and can't be slowed by it.

The sorcerer "corruption orb" power is another good one - it does poison damage and inflicts ongoing 5 acid damage. A poison-resistant creature will resist the appropriate amount of the initial poison hit, but will still take the ongoing acid damage. A poison-immune creature won't.

 

[Solvarn]

If you are immune to poison, how does that work with a power with the poison keyword?

(the following examples are purely made up and I don't know if anything has these specifics)

given the following, how much damage does one take (assume all of the attacks have the poison keyword)

1) 15 damage + immobliized (save ends)
2) 15 poison damage + Immobilized (save ends)
3) 15 damage + 10 ongoing poison
4) 10 damage + 5 poison damage + ongoing 5 damage
5) 10 damage + 5 poison damage + ongoing 5 poison damage

I'm guessing it would be
1) 15 (not immobilized)
2) 0 (not immobilized)
3) 15 (no onogoing)
4) 10 + 5 ongoing
5) 10 + no ongoing

Because of the immunity rule players locally think that you are only immune to the non-damaging effects of poison powers...but still take the damage, so all the answers above would be 15 damage (but no other effects, not even the untyped 5 ongoing in #4)

Relevant rules I could find:

[sblock=Immune(MM2)]A creature that is immune to a damage type (such as cold or fire), a condition (such as dazed or petrified), or another specific effect (such as disease or forced movement) is not affected by it. A creature that is immune to charm, fear, illusion, poison, or sleep is not affected by the nondamaging effects of a power that has that keyword. A creature that is immune to gaze is not affected by powers that have that keyword.[/sblock]

[sblock= Poison(MM2)]A Damage Type[/sblock]

[sblock=Poison Powers(PHB3)]A poison power delivers a nondamaging poisonous effect, deals poison damage, or both.[/sblock]

Hello! Haven't seen you for awhile, just been playing in Keyoke's game at my house on Friday and haven't been doing much LFR, although I'm going to start maybe doing a round once in awhile on Sundays.

Anyway, you are correct on all counts. Some would argue with you about number 4, but my stance is that ongoing damage on its own is damage and not an effect, otherwise there would be no point in specifying a damage type to ongoing damage, as you can't resist effects, you can only resist damage.

 

[Xeterog]

Yea, haven't made LFR in a while, not even open gaming on sundays. Played some LFR for the 1st time since novemeber or so when I went to A-Kon, but that is about it.

 

[Black Knight Irios]

Anyway, you are correct on all counts. Some would argue with you about number 4, but my stance is that ongoing damage on its own is damage and not an effect, otherwise there would be no point in specifying a damage type to ongoing damage, as you can't resist effects, you can only resist damage.

I'm not sure how you come to this conclusion. Where does it state that you cannot be immune to effect?

There's currently a thread about immunity and if you somehow can insist that what you said is true after reading it: Damage of two types but immunity to one(*1). I will gladly listen to your explanations.


(*1): Even though the title does not imply it it's still about immunity and effects as well.

 

[DracoSuave]

Well, with ongoing damage, it's a moot point as to whether it's damage, or a non-damaging effect.

If it's the former, poison immunity negates it, and if its the latter, poison immunity negates it.



In reality tho, the actually 'ongoing' part is non-damaging, but the 'damage' part of it is still damage and immunity affects it just fine. This usually doesn't matter unless there's an aftereffect, in which case that first failed save could mean more things happening.

otherwise there would be no point in specifying a damage type to ongoing damage, as you can't resist effects, you can only resist damage.

Ongoing damage of the same damage type doesn't stack, nor does ongoing damage of no type stack with other non-typed ongoing damage. That's actually -very- important.