Has Lovecraft become required reading?

[Reynard]

hey, L Sprague DeCamp was vital in popularizing Conan.

As unfortunate as the pastiches can be, the above statement should be well remembered. Conan was gone, lost to the ages. it was Carter and de Camp that reinvigorated the property, and it was Marvel Comics and TSR that popularized it for a whole new generation. Plus, Conan is something of the D&D of Sword & Sorcery -- it is the name everyone recognizes, and if it sells it creates opportunity for a lot of other things to sell to.

 

[coyote6]

I know that there's Ray Feist's Riftwar (and more) series, but it also came out originally in the mid to late 70s.

Early '80s, FWIW. Magician came out in 1982. I think it probably got published because of the surging interest in fantasy (as opposed to being part of the basis for that surge), but I have no idea about that. Edit: I do remember there being lots of fantasy books out for me to read as a kid, what with reprints of Conan, Elric, John Carter, Gor books, etc.

Riftwar's setting was based on a D&D game Feist was involved with; Midkemia was the setting, and bits of it were released as third party D&D/fantasy RPG sourcebooks, from Flying Buffalo, IIRC.

 

[Mallus]

Early '80s, FWIW. Magician came out in 1982. I think it probably got published because of the surging interest in fantasy (as opposed to being part of the basis for that surge), but I have no idea about that.

Feist's books were published after Terry Brooks and Stephen R. Donaldson had bestseller successes with the early Shannara and Thomas Covenant novels, so I'd say there was already a fair amount of interest in fantasy lit.

As for Lovecraft... long story short: I've read him. He's not scary at all. The pieces are terrifically imaginative. But they don't really work as, well, fiction. Read together they do kinda form an effective psychological horror story about being H.P. Lovecraft. They didn't factor into my D&D campaigns much, if at all --my Lovecraftian horrors are more Grant Morrisonian horrors.

Ultimately, I think he's worth reading, but not as some kind of gaming resource. Actually, I don't think there are definitive gaming resources. You should do what Gary did (WWGD)... dump whatever eclectic stuff you love into your games and don't look back.

 

[Reynard]

my Lovecraftian horrors are more Grant Morrisonian horrors.

You know where GM got that stuff, right?

Ultimately, I think he's worth reading, but not as some kind of gaming resource. Actually, I don't think there are definitive gaming resources. You should do what Gary did (WWGD)... dump whatever eclectic stuff you love into your games and don't look back.

Which you can only do if you are well read. In the case of D&D, "well read" includes the classics of the genres that ispired D&D, plus the new stuff that has been very specifically distilled from those classics through the pop-fantasy of the 70s and 80s through to today.

Or, to put it another ay, every time i hear some neo-fantasy fan extole China Mieville while deriding Howard, I want to scream. They are the same people, filling the same role, in very different eras.

 

[bagger245]

Is it me or if Wizards really fixated by Far Realms?

 

[Mallus]

You know where GM got that stuff, right?

Oh sure, but I like Morrison's version(s) better. Morrison is near the top of my list of favorite writers. Lovecraft isn't on the list, even though I respect him for the sheer inventiveness of the Mythos.

Which you can only do if you are well read. In the case of D&D, "well read" includes the classics of the genres that ispired D&D, plus the new stuff that has been very specifically distilled from those classics through the pop-fantasy of the 70s and 80s through to today.

I don't agree. You don't need to read through Gygax's list of inspirations, you need to find your own. You need, or rather, it helps a boatload, to be passionate about works of the imagination. These might be the Iliad and the works of REH. Or they could be X-Men comics, The Magic Flute, and Final Fantasy VII.

The idea that there's some definitive D&D canon should be stuffed into a cannon and fired into the wine-dark sea.

YMMV, of course.

(heck I've drawn inspiration from Preston Sturges comedies and Some Like It Hot. The idea is to expose yourself to whatever gets your creative juices flowing)

Or, to put it another way, every time i hear some neo-fantasy fan extole China Mieville while deriding Howard, I want to scream.

Why? Some people think Mieville is better than Howard... like me, though to be fair, I like Howard, and I really do need to read more of his writing.

I don't care who did it first, I care who does it best, at least according to whatever aesthetic criteria I'm haphazardly applying at the moment .

 

[Desdichado]

Which you can only do if you are well read. In the case of D&D, "well read" includes the classics of the genres that ispired D&D, plus the new stuff that has been very specifically distilled from those classics through the pop-fantasy of the 70s and 80s through to today.

I disagree. You can pull inspiration from anywhere. You can read the news and run a great game inspired by that. You don't need to touch any of the classics of the genre that inspired the game, or the stuff that's come since. You don't need to have read any fantasy at all.

Or, to put it another ay, every time i hear some neo-fantasy fan extole China Mieville while deriding Howard, I want to scream. They are the same people, filling the same role, in very different eras.

LOLwut? Howard and Mieville are on very different pages in almost every respect.

(heck I've drawn inspiration from Preston Sturges comedies and Some Like It Hot.

I had a whole character based on the premise of Some Like it Hot. I still think that was a great idea, and although it didn't work out quite the way I hoped, that only inspires me to eventually try it again sometime.

 

[Reynard]

You don't need to read through Gygax's list of inspirations, you need to find your own.

Here's the thing: it isn't simply about preferences, or inspiration or any other nebulous, subjective aspect of our favored fantastical entertainment medium. Those Appendix N authors actually shaped the game in a way that still remains with it in the age of Pathfinder and 4E. Not only would one appreciate the game and its tropes more if one were even moderately knowledgable of the inspirational; literature, but reading those original sources of inspiration actually informs one how to play and/or run the game. I dare anyone to read Vance and not "get" the magic system. I dare anyone to read Conan and not "get" the combat system.

Of course, the farther afield from the original game gets, the farther afield from the original inspiration it gets too. As I stated above, the tropes are still there, but the systems used to represent them are harder to align with the inspirational literature. A lot of the "inspirational literature" of the modern iteration is literature inspired by the previous iteration -- including books, comics and other sorts of games.

But I suppose I am starting to diverge from the subject of the thread. On that I can only reiterate my position, which is that the classic sword and sorcery fiction that inspired the original version of D&D is still relevant and knowing it will improve play.

 

[Silverblade The Ench]

Is it me or if Wizards really fixated by Far Realms?

Well, the answer is easy!

a) WOTC wants to hit it big and make D&D movies and games, thus getting lots of new players and $$$!

but

b) Hollywood is so stupid, idiotic, riddled with bean counting talentless, souless drones who can take a fantastic story and turn it into a day time soap opera of mind numbing PAP!!! that Hollywood must therefor surely be the site of Cthulhu's excretory orifice.
yes folks, you heard me! Hollywood is the Elder Gods way of turning you all into mindless dumb zombies by pooping out their brain-altering twisted views of reality!

As evidence of Hollywood being the "salem's Lot" of the zeitgeist:
-U571...ah huh, so it wasn't Polish agents and the British Royal Navy who got the Enigma machines first?
-Clash of the Titans 2, a sequel, WTH?!
-Just because a woman has good...body parts and looks, and maybe the director's beau, doens't mean she's an "actress".
-Nor is making an androgenous twerp firing a bow while skating on a shield and making the dwarf a damn joke, acceptable to us bearded folk!!! Damn bloody elves cannot out drink us either, poncy-faced bloody leaf-fondling hobbit-humpers!! *grumbles*


So, WOTC is playing up to the Evil Elder Gods by giving them lots of parts in the soon to be D&D movies and games!!
Makes a lot of sense when you think about it, and whatch a lot of recent films, doens't it?

 

[pemerton]

As for Lovecraft... long story short: I've read him. He's not scary at all. The pieces are terrifically imaginative. But they don't really work as, well, fiction. Read together they do kinda form an effective psychological horror story about being H.P. Lovecraft.

As far as I'm concerned, this wins the thread! Unfortunately I can't give you more XP at this time.