The Essential Knight

[UngeheuerLich]

A Dex fighter's Dexterity would still be high. My 9th level fighter has a 20 Str and 18 Dex. I focus my description on his high dex. Still I do see your point. At the same time I do not like having a fighter build that isn't compatible with the rest of the fighter builds.

I also understand that this isn't nerfing my fighter that I have now. I just think that they shouldn't make the Duplo version of DnD for new players. Rebox the game, add new powers, but stand by the mechanics of the game.

Ok, here we disagree:

I would have liked it if the initial design would have been that way. But I also think the 4e PHB fighter is a thing of beauty, as other PHB classes, like the bard.

Solution: no new verision of D&D but diefferent builds.
You could perfectly play ADnD 2nd edition with all those differeent players options for quite a while. The only problem was that they were quite unbalanced. I do like a modular system and the essentials line is a win for all.

If you don´t like it, don´t buy it. And disallow it from your games if you like.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Well to continue your analogy:

They're adding to the menu a bunch of dishes from a different culinary tradition -- say, Chinese instead of Italian.

You can still order the Italian dishes, but there won't be any more innovation there. The lasagna the way it is on the menu now will never change.

For now there are only four Chinese dishes on the menu (the new classes). As time goes on there will be more and more Chinese dishes, and all recipe innovation will go into Chinese dishes.

I hope you like Chinese food.

If you like Italian food, you can still order it, but it's never going to get any better (or worse).

Where is the problem here? The old italian food i like won´t change. I hate it when my favourite meal changes. If I go to my favourite restaurant, I don´t want it suddenly changed.

But now, if I feel like having something different: like asian noodles (actually where they originally came from) i can get those too. (see the similarity here)

 

[shmoo2]

Not to beat a dead analogy, but isn't this like saying, "That restaurant's current menu is just fine. How dare they add to it! "

Or, since an RPG system's parts all have to work together its more like saying, "This recipe already tastes just fine. I'm not sure adding more oregano is a good idea (even though I like oregano)."

 

[Raunalyn]

This discussion gives me an odd sense of deja vu....I guess it is reminiscent of the discussion of the first blurbs that were released about the classes of 4e before it was officially released.

I am reserving my judgement until I actually see the full class. It's like what the late Robert Jordan used to always say....RAFO (Read And Find Out).

My first impressions? It seems slightly underpowered. However, I like the idea of using stances to enhance basic attacks. I would love to see a few more of the stances that they will release.

 

[Charwoman Gene]

The issue with Melee Training is that you can switch ALL OF YOUR COMBAT CAPABILITY away from strength to say constitution. This is an obvious extreme optimization right off the bat. Now, maybe there are enough other tie-ins to strength that it won't really be a great option. The point was this is only the example of a feat that is problematic that it took me 3 seconds to come up with.

Why worry now? Wizards has already finished the product. When HFL is released, then analyze and worry. Until then, you are giving a portion of your emotion over to negativity based purely on speculation. There is precious few real info on Essentials, and a lot of marketing-speak (aka real-world flavor text) and the gaps are filledwith assumptions that WotC are complete naive fools, who haven't thought of the same problems. Maybe they haven't. Bur why worry until you know they haven't.

PS: "Any basic attack used with the Knight and Slayer class features must be made using Strength." hardly qualifies as "system surgery".

 

[FireLance]

I hope you like Chinese food.

I know you were trying to illustrate a point, but um... I AM Chinese.

 

[Charwoman Gene]

For now there are only four Chinese dishes on the menu (the new classes). As time goes on there will be more and more Chinese dishes, and all recipe innovation will go into Chinese dishes.

But the head chef is designing stuff for next year's menu and has said tat he is leafing throughh Italian cookbooks? Besides, Italian food stole pasta from the Chinese, so it's all good.

 

[Klaus]

I love the fact that the knight can swing with his at-wills all day long, and then when he strikes a critical, he can just say "Power Attack!" and add another maximized [W] onto the beast.

 

[FireLance]

Or, since an RPG system's parts all have to work together its more like saying, "This recipe already tastes just fine. I'm not sure adding more oregano is a good idea (even though I like oregano)."

I think it's closer to: "Steak is fine, peanut butter is fine, but don't put peanut butter on steak."

WotC may eventually need to come up with official instructions that prevent you from mixing peanut butter with steak, but in the meantine, if you don't like peanut butter with steak, use them separately but not together. But if you do like peanut butter with steak, enjoy it while it lasts!

 

[Garthanos]

That's a terrible analogy.

It's more like a super fancy Italian restaurant adding a "lunch special" at a discounted rate that is simpler fare and on a condensed one-page insert menu in the middle of the normal extensive menu.

Except the discount menu is plastered over a very similar front page (the players handbook). ... and some very cool items are on the bottom in kind of small print.