Klaus
First Post
Virtually, BUT you can enter an Encounter stance only once in an encounter. So if you need to switch to a different stance you can't go back.
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NOW LIVE! Into the Woods--new character species, eerie monsters, and haunting villains to populate the woodlands of your D&D games.
The Essential Knight
- Thread starter fanboy2000
- Start date
Virtually, BUT you can enter an Encounter stance only once in an encounter. So if you need to switch to a different stance you can't go back.
Well, saying "it would have been nice of the preview would include more detail on the Battle guardian power" is reasonable.
Saying "The community is rife with baseless speculation and that's the developer's fault" is outrageous.
ExploderWizard
Hero
Heh. Considering that the gaming community will be rife with speculation at the mere hint of new products then it seems that IS the developer's fault. How dare they create/release new products!
Jeremy Ackerman-Yost
Explorer
A question:
Who are these beginners, who in this day and age of nerditry, have not played a portable game system tactics game, or WoW, or any one of dozens of games that are far, far more complicated than a 1st level 4e character? I haven't met a beginner in recent years who couldn't grok the basic tactics involved in at-will, encounter, and daily powers, particularly the low level ones. These are far more basic than the stuff in many mass-market, casual video games. There are hyper-casual Flash games with that much tactical depth.
I know, I know, dueling anecdotes, my experience is not necessarily representative, etc. etc.
I just can't get my head around this issue.YOU said that, no one else did.
I said more complete information would help the community form a sound judgment about these products and the rules therein before they are released.
Abraxas
Explorer
My nephews - they like racing or sports games more or being outside, or my nieces and my friends daughters who didn't/don't like the WoW type games and just recently decided to play an rpg. I gamed with one person whose first experience to any of this was Diablo which is no where near as tactically complex as even AD&D. And another former player hadn't played until her SO invited her along to a game one night.A question:
Who are these beginners, who in this day and age of nerditry, have not played a portable game system tactics game, or WoW, or any one of dozens of games that are far, far more complicated than a 1st level 4e character? I haven't met a beginner in recent years who couldn't grok the basic tactics involved in at-will, encounter, and daily powers, particularly the low level ones. These are far more basic than the stuff in many mass-market, casual video games. There are hyper-casual Flash games with that much tactical depth.
I know, I know, dueling anecdotes, my experience is not necessarily representative, etc. etc.
I believe a lot of people are introduced with no background what so ever. I know more people who started with first person shooter twitch computer/console games as opposed to Multiplayer RPG computer/console games. All IME of course.
There has been a great deal of confusion in the community about precisely what the Essentials line will include, and what changes it portends for 4e D&D.
One purpose, explicitly stated, for these previews is to alleviate that confusion.
No one feels entitled to anything.
However, providing information with gaps deliberately included when the goal is to reduce confusion is not going to accomplish that goal.
This is not a reading comprehension issue- one may understand all of the information provided in these articles but still not be able to discern how the Essentials classes will be balanced and compatible with existing builds and rules. In fact, it is impossible to make that judgment, as you yourself have stated.
For that reason, these previews have failed to quell the confusion and unease of many fans of 4e in our community.
I also don't agree that the ability to create a single level 1 PC would be "severely undercutting the actual need for the product itself". That's one level of one build of one class - there will be 30 levels and 4 classes and 8 builds included in HOTFL.
My girlfriend.
She tried out D&D and played a fighter. She just wanted to try out what her boyfriend was doing every week. She was not interested in learning the intricacies of the tactical miniatures game that is part of D&D. A PC who can contribute in a useful way without requiring her do learn rules would have been perfect.
Of course, it was possible for her to play because we handled the marking stuff for her and explained what each power does (each time she used one), but I think she would have enjoyed it more to play without a nanny.
(No, I'm not making this up to prove a point)
TL;DR: Hang out with non-gamers some time.
fanboy2000
Adventurer
I don't think they would lose any sales if the previews included enough information to make a level 1 PC. I suspect the reason they didn't was because they don't think the changes are as drastic as we do.
Bill Slavicsek and Mike Mearls are game designers. I suspect they change the rules all time, it's their job. Monty Cook once said that he rarely played 3e by the rules, it was his nature to tinker. And let's not forget that Mearls is the guy behind Iron Heroes. So they tinker with the classes and when they find something that's fun and fits with whatever type of product they've planned, they release it. Given that these are variants of familiar classes, they probably didn't expect the level of interest it's generated here.
So when we look the Knight and go "WTF! MBA only and no Dailies?! This is a game changer!" (My personal reaction.) They go "but fighter stances have been out for months, if we can get rid of encounters then eliminating dailies shouldn't be a problem, what's the big deal?"
Also, some of the speculation was starting to solidify as "fact" in people's brains. If this was the typical preview a week or two before the release date, that wouldn't be a huge deal, but a couple of month's out could cause problems.
I agree. I'm posting only to point out that I don't think they expected this level of interest. Essentials has been dominating the 4e forum here. Dark Sun is almost here, and we have two threads about the same preview with over a hundred posts in each. One thread here put "Essentials" in the title even though it has nothing to do with Essentials.
Why is Essentials so interesting around here? Here's why, for over two years, a lot of us assumed that 4e was going to be on the numbered supplement book for a good long while. I was sure that there was going to be a an Arcane Power 2, and Divine Power 2, a Primal Power 2, to go along with Martial Power 2 this year. Until I learned otherwise, I thought that DMG 3 was going to make my September. That perception has changed, however, by the fact that Heroes of the Fall Lands isn't just a reprint book with maybe some new powers. Actually, it started with the announcement that this year's campaign setting is Dark Sun. The the product schedule was filled with Gamma World and Beginner's books.
Now those beginner's books have some great ideas in them. For years, Wizards has been putting out beginner's sets with pre-generated PCs a short adventure, and some rules with short "buy the PHB, DMG, and MM to continue the fun!" and now, that's not the case. And it's very interesting.
Scribble
First Post
A question:
Who are these beginners, who in this day and age of nerditry, have not played a portable game system tactics game, or WoW, or any one of dozens of games that are far, far more complicated than a 1st level 4e character? I haven't met a beginner in recent years who couldn't grok the basic tactics involved in at-will, encounter, and daily powers, particularly the low level ones. These are far more basic than the stuff in many mass-market, casual video games. There are hyper-casual Flash games with that much tactical depth.
I know, I know, dueling anecdotes, my experience is not necessarily representative, etc. etc.
I don't think it's so much an inability to understand, so much as a willingness to expend mental effort before you've decided if the game is even going to be something you want to keep doing.
Potential Player:
Ok, so now I have to pick an At-Will.. Ok umm here's my list.. yikes I have to read all those? Ok first one blah blah...
Wait... I have to do this for each of these power types???
Screw it, these ones have cool names... I'll pick those.
I'm kind of like this when I build characters even now, and I've been playing D&D for years...
Some people grasp quite fine how the tactics work... They just don't find all the decision making that goes into choosing the powers as fun as others do.
These people would be perfectly happy with WoTC saying: "Here's what you get- go have fun!"
