Define the term "campaign"

[Lanefan]

But, Lanefan, strip it down.

If I run ONLY those 8 adventures, from beginning to end, did I have a campaign?

Yes.

Sure, a campaign can be more than a single adventure path, but, a single adventure path can also be a campaign.

Yes.

Or, to put it another way, if I run Shackled City or the Dragonlance modules from beginning to end, I think most people would call that a campaign, whether or not I added on DL 15 and 16 (optional mini-modules for Dragonlance) or continued my SCAP campaign into epic levels.

I think we're trying to agree here.

All I'm trying to get at is that if you were to run the Dragonlance modules (one path) and then segue the same PCs right into Shackled City (another path, somehow shoehorned to fit the D-Lance setting) it'd still be a single campaign. There's those here, it seems, who insist this would be two; I thought you were one such, maybe I'm wrong.

Lanefan

 

[Hussar]

I think I've kinda waffled a bit back and forth Lanefan.

I think I would say that if the DM was convinced that it was the same campaign, then it would be. But, then again, I was more concerned about the idea that all adventures that happen to occur in a single setting should be considered a campaign.

A campaign needs more linking it together than geography.

 

[billd91]

But if it needs more than geography, what do you consider sufficient?

Suppose I DM a group of characters ABCD and they loot some caves. Then AB go off and visit a castle with characters EF while CD loot more caves with GH. Then suppose ACGH go and put down some bandits and BDFI go do some caravan guarding.

How many campaigns have I got going on here?

 

[Hussar]

Is that a campaign?

Going entirely from your description, presuming there is nothing linking any of those adventures, I'd call that a series of one shots.

I mean, none of the adventures have any connection. Other than the fact that you have a few constant characters, what makes it a campaign? The fact that it's all set in Greyhawk? That's all it takes to make a campaign?

To me, no. Those adventures need something tying them together in some fashion. There needs to be some sort of common thread. Otherwise, how is that not simply five different one shot adventures?

In any case, other than some really serious corner casing going on here, how likely are you going to have this situation? ((Lanefan, sit down, I KNOW you fit this )) How likely is it that you split the party FIVE times in five adventures?

 

[billd91]

But the characters are connecting the adventure sites together. Or are you trying to say that a sandbox campaign can't be a "campaign"?

 

[Desdichado]

As to the latter bit of hair-splitting, I think the definition of a campaign suffers a bit from the "I know it when I see it, but I can't exactly explain it to anyone else" syndrome.

To a great extent, whether something is a continuation of a prior or existing campaign, a sequel to that campaign (but still a unique campaign in its own right) or just a completely different campaign altogether that happens to be in the same setting is greatly dependent on the perception of the group. If the GM says, "Hey, let's pick up that old campaign and play it some more," then the players will likely view their second take on it as a continuation of the same campaign. If the GM says, "Hey, remember that campaign we had a few years ago that we all liked? Let's do a sequel to that, with new characters and stuff, but with some ties back to the old campaign here and there," then that'll be the perception of the players. If he says, "Hey, remember that campaign we had a few years ago that we all liked? How about a new campaign in that same setting?" then again; that'll probably be the players' perception.

In terms of hard and fast differences between those three scenarios, though, you'd probably be hard pressed to come up with many. From the outside, they'd probably all seem like the same scenario.

 

[Doug McCrae]

How many campaigns have I got going on here?

One. But it's way old school.

 

[Hussar]

But the characters are connecting the adventure sites together. Or are you trying to say that a sandbox campaign can't be a "campaign"?

No of course not.

But, since the adventures don't actually share characters, how can they all be considered the same campaign?

None of the adventures have any linkage in your example, and none of them share characters. While some characters might share two or three of the five adventures, taken as a whole, none of the adventures are actually linked together in any way.

How is this not simply a collection of pick up games? The only connecting element between any of these is the DM. It's a campaign if all adventures share a DM?

Well, no, that doesn't work because lots of groups rotate DM's.

I do think Hobo has the right of it here. Campaign is best defined by its center, not by its edges. You will never get an air tight definition that will satisfy all examples perfectly. It's just like the word "forest". What is a forest? At what point does a collection of trees become a forest?

But, if I'm standing in the middle of one, I know it's a forest.

For me, the example you gave, with no further information, I would not call a campaign. It's a group of one shots. No one in the group actually shares experiences beyond a couple of the adventures.

Now, if there was something linking all the characters together, something linking the adventures together (other than simple geography), then I'd have no problems calling it a campaign.

But your specific example? No, I wouldn't call it a campaign.

Look at the Westeros campaign. There is a common linkage between all the adventures - exploration of the West lands. Every adventure is meant to expand the knowledge of the group of the unexplored lands. And all the adventurers are linked together by being members of the same adventurers guild - with shared information and shared goals.

That's enough linkage for me.

 

[Lanefan]

But if it needs more than geography, what do you consider sufficient?

Suppose I DM a group of characters ABCD and they loot some caves. Then AB go off and visit a castle with characters EF while CD loot more caves with GH. Then suppose ACGH go and put down some bandits and BDFI go do some caravan guarding.

How many campaigns have I got going on here?

One. And a right good 'un too, from a start like that.

But, since the adventures don't actually share characters, how can they all be considered the same campaign?

None of the adventures have any linkage in your example, and none of them share characters. While some characters might share two or three of the five adventures, taken as a whole, none of the adventures are actually linked together in any way.

How is this not simply a collection of pick up games? The only connecting element between any of these is the DM. It's a campaign if all adventures share a DM?

They share a common pool of characters, a setting, and a DM. (it's not mentioned, but let's assume one PC per player; or else there's player linkings to consider as well)

There is also clear character continuity linking each adventure to the next.

What more do you possibly need to make it a campaign? Not a story; as that is in process of becoming developed through play. Not an adventure path, as that doesn't seem to be this group's/DM's style. What, then?

As I've mentioned elsewhere, it all depends on how much linkage you expect and at what level between one adventure and the next, to make it a campaign. This example has all the linkage I'd need; more, in fact, as there's no mention of character A dying in the caves and being replaced with character I...

Lanefan

 

[Hussar]

But if it needs more than geography, what do you consider sufficient?

Suppose I DM a group of characters ABCD and they loot some caves. Then AB go off and visit a castle with characters EF while CD loot more caves with GH. Then suppose ACGH go and put down some bandits and BDFI go do some caravan guarding.

How many campaigns have I got going on here?

Just requoting Bill91 for my own benefit more than anyone else.

Character A - Loots caves, searches a castle and then meets bandits.
Character B - Loots caves, searches a castle, then goes caravan guarding.
Character C - Loots caves, loots more caves, then meets bandits.
Character D - Loots caves, loots more caves, goes caravan guarding.
Character E - Searches a castle, and is done.
Character F - Searches a castle then goes caravan guarding.
Character G - Loots caves then meets bandits.
Character H - Loots caves then meets bandits.
Character I - Goes caravan guarding.

There is no causal linkage between any of these adventures. None of the adventures feature all of the characters. There is no common thread between any of the adventures, other than a DM. There isn't even a need for an actual game world here as any of these adventures could be plunked down without any preamble.

How is this not four one shot adventures reusing characters?

For this specific example to be a campaign, I'd say there has to be more. Something linking the characters together would be nice. Some general themes or story lines that give causal links between the adventures. Why did they go to the castle after the caves? Is it just because that's the adventure the DM was running that day? Or is there something linking that castle to those caves?

The answer to those last questions, IMO, determine whether this is a campaign or a collection of one off's.