Pathfinder 1E Paizo = Play WoTC = Pay?

[BryonD]

Read the thread, though. The OP actually admits to being a 4e player who uses a good chunk of Paizo. It's just one of those unfortunate mistakes.

This isn't a "hate" topic, at all.

There are people who don't see critical comments, they just see "hate".

That said, I'm not convinced that the point in the OP is all that significant.
I do know there are some real number of 4E fans who buy Paizo products for use in their 4E game because they think Paizo makes better adventure related material. And I can not recall anyone saying they are a PF fan, but they prefer Wotc's 4E adventures. They may exist, but they are way more quiet if they do. So the OP has a point, no doubt.

But, I think the magnitude of this point is far smaller than the simple distinction between 4e fan/ wotc supporters and 3E fan / Paizo supporters.

Though if you are actually in the *4E fan who likes Paizo product quality* group, then the topic will certainly be important to you personally.

 

[Fifth Element]

Probably it's related to one of the most significant differences between the companies. WotC is owned by Hasbro, which is a publicly traded company that needs to please stockholders. Paizo is a small company that only needs to please its customer base.

No, Paizo has to please its owners as well. As a business, if they don't make money, they will soon no longer be a business.

And in terms of pleasing customers, how do you suggest WotC make money other than pleasing its customers? If their only goal is profit, how are they going to achieve it other than by selling things to their customers? And if they don't please their customers, how are they still in business?

Paizo OTOH, is small enough that they don't need to worry about this as much. They still have to worry about profits, but since they're not part of a huge publicly traded company, they can get away with narrower margins, take more risks, or cater to a specific set of buyers.

I daresay releasing an entirely new edition of the game, with some pretty substantial changes, is more of a risk than releasing another OGL version of the game to an existing customer base. As Bluenose pointed out.

 

[Wicht]

Do you really think Paizo is taking much in the way of risks?

Its funny how arguments change.

When Paizo first went their own way, the detractors were saying; "They're choosing a loosing path with diminishing returns. Appealling only to a few troubled grognards who will soon convert to 4e. Makes me sad."

Now, the argument appears to be; "Paizo chose an easy path with no risks. Well of course they were successful; they were building with someone elses toys and didn't have to do any work at all. Not that they sell much though."

 

[Fifth Element]

Its funny how arguments change.

Is it the arguments that are changing, or the arguers? It's not noteworthy if it's different people making different claims. "The detractors" is unlikely to be a neatly-definable monolithic group.

 

[ShinHakkaider]

EDIT: Never mind.

 

[Cor_Malek]

Really? I usually see it as WOTC - Love here @ ENworld in general (meaning in the broader case, not the forum category....)

Hehe, yeah that's how selective perception usually works. An argument that is weighted perfectly between 2 stances (A and B) will most often be perceived as biased towards A by B supporters and vice versa, because positives are considered to be natural and obvious, while negatives - unfair and ill-logical. Shows we have a good thing going ;-)


As to the argument at hand - sort of reminds me of two drug dealers - one tries to get people hooked up and the other maximizes the sales
Then again it's a bit unfair, because this is only if we consider sales alone, and leave out the Encounters. Or the Red Box which is basically like an extremely weak joint, one that makes you light, but not actually high, maybe you should try more. So I'm told.

In my mind, WotC could pull a lot of crazy s*** and I'd still have good feelings for them - sure, they dropped OGL idea, but it was there to be dropped to begin with. Using Pathfinder also means using WotC material - which is great play...

I dunno. I really like both companies. I prefer both PF and 3.5 to 4e, but that's because of system feel, not business model. I own only 2 PF adventures (Crown of the Kobold King and Carnival of Tears), and those are the only 2 adventures I have (at all)- I bought them because they are so great, not because I actually need them to play (truth to be told, I actually dislike published adventures).

As to campaign setting - I really don't get why people are not counting FR or Greyhawk.

 

[Umbran]

I find both produce some great products but both seem to have completely different ends in mind.

Heh. Joe, you seem to me to be confusing means with ends. Paizo is a business. Their basic desire is that you buy their products. If it isn't, they shall soon cease to be a going concern.

WotC and Paizo may use different tactics to get you to give them money - and in that sense your analysis has some merit - but do not kid yourself, even for a minute, that they don't share the same basic end of making your wallet lighter.

 

[Umbran]

Its funny how arguments change.

It doesn't seem strange at all. Failing to change would imply failing to learn from accumulated evidence. People may be hidebound about some things, but they aren't outright stupid.

When Paizo first went their own way, the detractors were saying; "They're choosing a loosing path with diminishing returns. Appealling only to a few troubled grognards who will soon convert to 4e. Makes me sad."

Now, the argument appears to be; "Paizo chose an easy path with no risks. Well of course they were successful; they were building with someone elses toys and didn't have to do any work at all. Not that they sell much though."

Yes, and therefore the truth is somewhere in the middle. The same is usually true for all extreme positions. This is news?

 

[Wicht]

It doesn't seem strange at all.

I didn't say strange. I said funny. As in, it amuses me and makes me smile. Maybe I'm just easily entertained.

 

[Mallus]

All that's relevant to me is:

Paizo produces the kind of game materials I like to make myself.

WotC produces the kind of game materials I don't like to make myself.

Ergo, I have never purchased a Paizo product, although I hear many of them are quite good.