Fighter Slayer preview

[JohnSnow]

The battlemind and seeker were supposed to be tragic and heart stirring, but ended up comical? I guess you have a wider variety of things that you judge funny.

Mind you, I would have thought if the concepts had started with role and weapon, they might have gone for something a bit more flavourful, like using implements... I think it was more role and power source and not much else.

Well, Battlemind and Seeker could have been great concepts.

Seeker was an attempt at "Primal Ranger."

Battlemind was another shot at "Medieval Jedi."

I may be totally off-base, but I suspect those are class concepts people would have totally gotten behind. They do, however, kinda require shelving tight adherence to rolls.

Primal Ranger says "Striker/Controller" with some leader-esque aid powers. The Seeker's magic bow totally works with the concept. Some people think the ranger's a prime candidate for being a martial controller, and it's easier with magic...

"Medieval Jedi" implies something totally different from what the battlemind IS. They were in trouble with the battlemind the minute they gave him a shield. One potentially cool idea woulda been to take the 3e concept of the "soulknife" and give it to the psionic defender class. Something like that coulda been super-nifty. Maybe rods as implements?

(Yes, it's very "lightsaber." So?)

 

[doctorhook]

You mean WotC, the company responsible for gaming words like shardmind, battlemind, warforged, warden, warlord, wilden, and fell taint, are having difficulty with naming conventions?

IMHO, shardmind, battlemind, and warden are all fairly weak concepts with fairly weak names. Wilden seems a decent concept with a weak name. Warlords are a great concept with a name that perhaps had too much baggage. Warforged are a great concept, whose silly name can be forgiven by virtue of the fact that it long precedes (IIRC) all the rest of these silly names. And as for fell taints, well, I have to admit that I have absolutely no idea what the opposition to their name is; does it evoke some kind of wacky East Coast slang? Because in my Prairie-English (General American accent, although I live in Canada), "fell taint" doesn't mean anything... except for maybe "evil corruption".

PS: I lol'd over your post.

 

[Henry]

You mean WotC, the company responsible for gaming words like shardmind, battlemind, warforged, warden, warlord, wilden, and fell taint, are having difficulty with naming conventions?

I'm shocked! Just...shocked! Shocked, I tell you!

shocked!

Ever looked at Gary Gygax's screed in the 1st ed PHB where he talks about a 9th level character delving into the 6th dungeon level and attacking a 7th level monster with a 4th level spell?

fell taint away!

 

[I'm A Banana]

Ever looked at Gary Gygax's screed in the 1st ed PHB where he talks about a 9th level character delving into the 6th dungeon level and attacking a 7th level monster with a 4th level spell?

Gygaxian prose, admittedly, has its own awkwardness. I mean, I don't think Zagyg and Ixixachitl and Iggwilv and the rest of 'em exactly roll off the tongue. And "large scorpions" being size M while "huge scorpions" were size L certainly delights in the land of confusion. And I'm sure instead of "fell taint" he would've used the words "daemonical perineum," which is hardly an improvement.

But after "shadowdark," there's no saving WotC, either.

 

[mach1.9pants]

Yeah there is al sorts of char op stuff here... but I'll not panic until I have seen the class (and 4EE) entire!

But are we going to see more mix and match roles? I hope so.. Wizard strikers, Druid controllers leader, Rogue controllers, Ranger leaders etc etc. I like that idea.

While I am editing: Paladin leaders

(Psst! Druids already are controllers... )

EDIT: Technically, I posted before you edited, but obviously you saw your mistake already. Now this whole post just seems pointless... Look what you've done!

Haha that was very funny.

 

[doctorhook]

And I'm sure instead of "fell taint" he would've used the words "daemonical perineum," which is hardly an improvement.

...That's what fell taint means?!?

 

[Greatwyrm]

Role defines class being the primary one. Archer Fighters dont exist because the Fighter is a Defender and class mechanics dont function at range. If you want the "bow fighter" archetype you play a DEX ranger. If you want to be a high-damage sword fighter you play a Ranger or Rogue or Barbarian.

Can you show me where a Fighter hitting or missing with a ranged attack still doesn't mark a target?

And as far as role defining class, about half the classes are 2/3 something and 1/3 something else. Druids are controllers with some striker. Warlocks are strikers with a little controller. Fighters were already defender with some striker (20 STR, +1 to hit with 2h weapons, swinging a d12 at you). I don't think the roles are that tightly defined even back to PHB1.

Aside from the Melee training issue, Humans fall apart without classes having at-will attacks, race rebuilds, the whole swath of Basic-Attack feats and items.....

Fighters still get at-will attacks. The new builds don't have any, but the 17 or so existing ones are still there to choose from. There's also a ton of feats and items that affect basic attacks already. Put the words "basic attack" in the compendium and hit search.

Put a Knight and a S&B Fighter next to each other, the only similarities you find are in terms that have been redefined and a power list that gets gutted for one half or the other.

Name two terms that have been "redefined".

A Knight and an SBF would play practically identically. You just buy a Knight off-the-rack and get an SBF tailor-made.

 

[the_amnesiac]

And I'm sure instead of "fell taint" he would've used the words "daemonical perineum," which is hardly an improvement.

I actually used Fell Taints in my game recently. "The Fell Taint hits you with Tendril Caress!" They could not keep a straight face throughout the entire fight. It didn't help that I was also using a Cursechanged Beggar who kept spamming Awesome Blow and Fist Frenzy...

 

[Bold or Stupid]

I actually used Fell Taints in my game recently. "The Fell Taint hits you with Tendril Caress!" They could not keep a straight face throughout the entire fight. It didn't help that I was also using a Cursechanged Beggar who kept spamming Awesome Blow and Fist Frenzy...

When I used fell taints (no slang problem in the UK) the reaction to tendril caress was basically eeewww!

 

[Zaphling]

Note: I didn't read everything on this thread because it takes too long to finish.

Here are my opinions:

Actually I was hesitant at first being traditional myself. But as I open my mind, these new subclasses (The knight and slayer) are a pretty good addition to the Fighter class, with the understanding that Wotc will not make any more martial classes.

I just imagine the Fighter class having three options: Original, Knight, and of course Slayer.

The Knight subclass having heavier armor than its other counterparts and the Defender Aura marking system. As what I understand the Defender Aura only gives the normal penalties of a mark condition, -2 attack if marker is not included. Except that it only automatically marks all enemies inside the aura. That's its advantage compared to the Original's Combat Challenge marking system, which only marks 1 target, after an attack is made; but its oomph is on the interrupting basic attack, compared to the Defender's Aura's auto-mass marking.

Which leads me to this: Is the Knight and Original capable of switching class features? I mean, ca the Original also trade its Combat Challenge for Defender's Aura? or vice versa for the Knight? (I'm pretty sure they can't have both marking systems)

Also is the Knight capable of substituting its Defender's Aura for Slayer's Heroic Slayer? (This also includes the Original). I'm just saying.


Another one: Is the Knight capable of substituting one of its Class Features: Battle Guardian, Weapon Talent, or Shield Finesse for Battlerage Vigor, Tempest Technique, or Brawler Style? Because the Original trades its Fighter Weapon Talent for the said builds.

I assume that Battle Guardian is the close equivalent of Combat Superiority. Can this be traded for Combat Agility?


I have no qualms on the at-will stances because the Original can also use them and vice versa, including Power Strike.