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Anyone got any good ideas for a Song of Ice and Fire Campaign?
- Thread starter Donp
- Start date
Thunderfoot
Hero
Love the system...
However, one of the problems with playing a game setting written around popular fiction is keeping your characters from screwing things up.
How I've done it using other systems and then my advice:
Star Trek (FASA) - This was easy, space is big and each ship is a micro world of its own.
Star Wars (WEG d6) - Again, this one wasn't too hard, played on the fringe and gave the players missions that lead to events in the original movies (before Lucas mucked it up with the 3 crappy pre-quels)
Wheel of Time (WotC d20) - This is a lot closer to what you are dealing with. We decided to play in a time way before the dragon's rebirth (150 years). False dragons, Aes Sedai, Trollocs and mayhem for all, no interaction with known characters.
So, my advice-
1. You can set the campaign around a pre-books house that no longer exists. The downfall of the house may even be the focus of your campaign.
Re-read a lot of the sections that discuss the history and remember to regress your technology and such.
2. You can set the campaign in the near future. This is trickier, you might run into the characters in the books, but in an advanced age, possibly either diseased or demented. The trick here is to make sure that the progression of your history makes sense. Why is house Berathon suddenly gone? What about the northern wastes that are now being colonized? etc.
3. Far future. This takes a lot of work on your part and a commitment from your players to actually read your background/history information. You basically have to figure out a feasible time line after the fact and fill in the blanks BEFORE you begin writing your campaign material. Why? otherwise you get the embarrassing questions that make you go .."Duhhhhhhhh!" You don't have to go overboard (I do, but that's just the way I work) but every time you insert another event, you need to write it down and then work backward into the books to save yourself from the players looking at you as to why you forgot the insurrection that overthrew the throne and changed the balance of power in the realms.
4. You can place your campaign in the same time period as the books, however, I caution you to remember the Dragonlance syndrome where the characters are not the main heroes and their actions don't really contribute to the alterations of the world or if they play the heroes that they cannot change things or else it wrecks things (all of your characters are magically resurrected for this next module because otherwise you're changing history.
5. There is one other option - you can start with a pre-determined event from the books and everything there after alters the history of the world creating an "alternate time-line" ala Star Trek. AKA the "same thing, only different" scenario.
Hopefully this helps, and good luck. Make sure you post about it once you get it going, I may need to steal, er plagiarize, er borrow you material.
However, one of the problems with playing a game setting written around popular fiction is keeping your characters from screwing things up.
How I've done it using other systems and then my advice:
Star Trek (FASA) - This was easy, space is big and each ship is a micro world of its own.
Star Wars (WEG d6) - Again, this one wasn't too hard, played on the fringe and gave the players missions that lead to events in the original movies (before Lucas mucked it up with the 3 crappy pre-quels)
Wheel of Time (WotC d20) - This is a lot closer to what you are dealing with. We decided to play in a time way before the dragon's rebirth (150 years). False dragons, Aes Sedai, Trollocs and mayhem for all, no interaction with known characters.
So, my advice-
1. You can set the campaign around a pre-books house that no longer exists. The downfall of the house may even be the focus of your campaign.
Re-read a lot of the sections that discuss the history and remember to regress your technology and such.
2. You can set the campaign in the near future. This is trickier, you might run into the characters in the books, but in an advanced age, possibly either diseased or demented. The trick here is to make sure that the progression of your history makes sense. Why is house Berathon suddenly gone? What about the northern wastes that are now being colonized? etc.
3. Far future. This takes a lot of work on your part and a commitment from your players to actually read your background/history information. You basically have to figure out a feasible time line after the fact and fill in the blanks BEFORE you begin writing your campaign material. Why? otherwise you get the embarrassing questions that make you go .."Duhhhhhhhh!" You don't have to go overboard (I do, but that's just the way I work) but every time you insert another event, you need to write it down and then work backward into the books to save yourself from the players looking at you as to why you forgot the insurrection that overthrew the throne and changed the balance of power in the realms.
4. You can place your campaign in the same time period as the books, however, I caution you to remember the Dragonlance syndrome where the characters are not the main heroes and their actions don't really contribute to the alterations of the world or if they play the heroes that they cannot change things or else it wrecks things (all of your characters are magically resurrected for this next module because otherwise you're changing history.
5. There is one other option - you can start with a pre-determined event from the books and everything there after alters the history of the world creating an "alternate time-line" ala Star Trek. AKA the "same thing, only different" scenario.
Hopefully this helps, and good luck. Make sure you post about it once you get it going, I may need to steal, er plagiarize, er borrow you material.
jonesy
A Wicked Kendragon
Umm.. sorry about this Thunderfoot, but what you said really rubs me the wrong way.
The Dragonlance syndrome wasn't about the setting itself guiding actions towards a certain goal. It was about DM's who thought that that was the only legitimate way to do it. Be brave. Take chances. Allow changes. Let them screw things up if they want to. A lot of the best campaigns I've ever played in have been about dealing with the after-effects of the players actions, once they've realized what their actions have caused.
Screwing things up? You mean keeping them from changing things? Why can't they change what happened? Or what might have happened in the books?
If any of the players have read the books, they will want to play the houses they've learned to love.
Why is it bad that they might run into characters from the books? Because they might alter events from the books?
And that would be bad because.. of what? The DM decides what happens in the campaign setting, not the fiction written for the setting. Even if the setting is based on those books. You are suggesting a scenario where nothing that the characters do makes a difference. Such a campaign becomes very frustrating very fast. You need to give the party freedom to do what they want. If they gey in trouble they'll get to deal with that trouble. That can make for an exciting campaign.
So let me get this straight. You have a problem with DM's who railroaded Dragonlance campaigns towards what happened in the books, and your solution is to become a DM who railroads the campaign away from the books so that nothing could possibly change? You elevate the books to a holy status where things that happen can only happen the way they do in the books, but complain that what the characters do won't contribute to the world? And you really don't see what the problem here is?
The Dragonlance syndrome wasn't about the setting itself guiding actions towards a certain goal. It was about DM's who thought that that was the only legitimate way to do it. Be brave. Take chances. Allow changes. Let them screw things up if they want to. A lot of the best campaigns I've ever played in have been about dealing with the after-effects of the players actions, once they've realized what their actions have caused.
Thunderfoot
Hero
Ooookay.
I guess I wasn't quite clear (it was kind of late)
What I MEANT was running an adventure at the same time of the books is a bad idea because players usually want to be THE heroes and many players turn a foul tide to being second fiddle people. (Most gamers I've ran into wan the world to "revolve" around their actions.)
As for my advice - you completely missed the reason for posting number 3 - that campaign would be awesome, I'm just saying make sure you keep VERY good notes or else your players will bite you in the butt with the loopholes. It's amazing how some players can't remember which side they are own, who they are working for or the names of the other characters in the party, but drop a plot hole and they can quote verbatum what you said and when you said it. The players DO make the history this way, their actions DO matter, which is why I said you should try to avoid playing in the book era, due to so much of the world being shaped by factors OTHER than the players.
And your complaint about my #4 advice is overridden by #5 advice, as I said, there is a tendency for players to quote book references and use them as "landmark" events. If you can convince your players that nothing is exactly the same (like the new Star Trek movies) except the people and places, then great. As a matter of fact, "Eureka" on SyFy (that still seems wrong) just 're-launched' their world with a time travel problem. Same people, same place, VERY different circumstances.
My advice centered around what I've seen happen in games I've played. If you screw with the established events in the books, some people MAY get upset and cry foul. Players are the focus, so your re-imagining might rub them the wrong way or it may not. All I'm saying is be careful, ticking off your friends over a game is hardly worth it, especially when there are work-a-rounds.
And I stand by my statements of the Dragonlance series of modules, crappy writing, and all around poor DM advice throughout.
Last edited:
jonesy
A Wicked Kendragon
Ok. That actually does make a lot more sense. I seem to be doing a lot of conclusion jumping recently. I think I need that mat from Office Space.
If you mean the original modules, I'll have to agree partially on that too.
Thunderfoot
Hero
Ok. That actually does make a lot more sense. I seem to be doing a lot of conclusion jumping recently. I think I need that mat from Office Space.
If you mean the original modules, I'll have to agree partially on that too.
lolz - no biggie and yeah, I mean the originals. Wow, what a crap fest they were. You have to realize I've been playing since 1978, so sometimes I speak of products that have been 20 years out of print as if they were still on the market.
Steel_Wind
Legend
If you absolutley must have a direct literary connection, you could set the game during the time of the Hedge Knight Novellas or perhaps sixteen years earlier during the Blackfyre rebellion if you are looking to keep a direct literary feel.
Problem is, the dragons are dead at that time. If your players are big on magic, set it another 130-150 years prior to that when the Targaryens are still in power and the dragons are alive.
Either way, this channels all the Westeros feel of the books without putting you in a position where you are having to deal with juggling events and characters from the novels.
The big problem with setting ANY story during the timeline of a famous series of novels is that the players ALREADY know who the most important characters of that time are -- and it isn't THEIR CHARACTERS. That's not fair to the players. Players should have the reasonably founded belief that their characters are the most important -- or at least could become the most important -- characters of their world and timeline.
If you set the story in "present day" Westeros -- that won't happen. Your players deserve better -- and so do you.
Let GRRM be the designer of your world setting - but don't let him be the GM too. That needs to be you. Similarly, the story needs to be told by your players and you -- not dictated by GRRM.
I would suggest that you set your campaign at the end of the reign of Jaehaerys I Targaryen or perhaps his direct heirs. That is at about 90- to 130 years after the conquest. The dragons are alive so magic is still present in the world. The Dornish are still rebellious and the Seven Kingdoms can almost remember BEING seven kingdoms. You have a large and expansive canvas on which to paint your story -- and nothing your players do is going to change future history, either.
All the plusses, none of the minuses.
Problem is, the dragons are dead at that time. If your players are big on magic, set it another 130-150 years prior to that when the Targaryens are still in power and the dragons are alive.
Either way, this channels all the Westeros feel of the books without putting you in a position where you are having to deal with juggling events and characters from the novels.
The big problem with setting ANY story during the timeline of a famous series of novels is that the players ALREADY know who the most important characters of that time are -- and it isn't THEIR CHARACTERS. That's not fair to the players. Players should have the reasonably founded belief that their characters are the most important -- or at least could become the most important -- characters of their world and timeline.
If you set the story in "present day" Westeros -- that won't happen. Your players deserve better -- and so do you.
Let GRRM be the designer of your world setting - but don't let him be the GM too. That needs to be you. Similarly, the story needs to be told by your players and you -- not dictated by GRRM.
I would suggest that you set your campaign at the end of the reign of Jaehaerys I Targaryen or perhaps his direct heirs. That is at about 90- to 130 years after the conquest. The dragons are alive so magic is still present in the world. The Dornish are still rebellious and the Seven Kingdoms can almost remember BEING seven kingdoms. You have a large and expansive canvas on which to paint your story -- and nothing your players do is going to change future history, either.
All the plusses, none of the minuses.
Greengaloup
First Post
I know it is been a long time since someone posted in this topic, but does someone still want to talk about it?
I am GMing a game with the green ronin's a game of throne edition of their rpg. My storry is (I think) well think of, but I would like to share some of the ideas, but also want to have some new thoughts because.
So if there is still someone there willing to talk about adventures ideas (not to do the critic of the setting nor the time frame of it, but actual ideas for an adventure), I'll be there toshare
I am GMing a game with the green ronin's a game of throne edition of their rpg. My storry is (I think) well think of, but I would like to share some of the ideas, but also want to have some new thoughts because.
So if there is still someone there willing to talk about adventures ideas (not to do the critic of the setting nor the time frame of it, but actual ideas for an adventure), I'll be there toshare
Jan van Leyden
Adventurer
I'm in a similar situation, starting my game Friday next week. My camapign, though, is planned as a short affair and focuses on the Peril in Kings Landing aventure from the book.
My players created a House in the North with some really crappy results for Law and Wealth. As a first introduction to the system and the world I'll have them organize a raid against some bandits where they'll encounter several persons - memorable but without set purpose. If we decide to continue the campaign after Peril at Kings Landing I intend to use these guys for further adventures.
I seriously doubt that I'd be able to run a full-blown campaign with SIF. Intrigue and treachery are nice and interesting once in a while, but how to build a whole campaign on this? Well, let's see whether the players drive the story and I have only to throw obstacles in their way.
My players created a House in the North with some really crappy results for Law and Wealth. As a first introduction to the system and the world I'll have them organize a raid against some bandits where they'll encounter several persons - memorable but without set purpose. If we decide to continue the campaign after Peril at Kings Landing I intend to use these guys for further adventures.
I seriously doubt that I'd be able to run a full-blown campaign with SIF. Intrigue and treachery are nice and interesting once in a while, but how to build a whole campaign on this? Well, let's see whether the players drive the story and I have only to throw obstacles in their way.
Greengaloup
First Post
That is great.
I already have started my game. we have a few session done already. i like your idea to make them play the campaing first and I regret that I didn't do it.
They have created a house un the mountain of the moon ans I have decided to build all of the adversaries (one other house and a savage clan). In the planning, all was nice. ny players have decided to play the -heir, the forst lady, the second born son, the maestre and the weapon master... all was nice in the land of the mountains and I had all my plots going until the maestre ans the first lady decided to... make out... and brag about it...
In a sessions (the second one), all my carefull planning was destroyed by 2 players who were thinking they were playing D&D...
I decide not to pass too much time on that and to continue like if (almost) nothing happened.
Let me know how it goes, we had to take 2 sessions to adjust to the combat system. but I have a group of 5 and most of them never have played rpg outside call of cthulhu and dungeon and dragons...
Do you fell like you need to take more time to prepare your games?
I already have started my game. we have a few session done already. i like your idea to make them play the campaing first and I regret that I didn't do it.
They have created a house un the mountain of the moon ans I have decided to build all of the adversaries (one other house and a savage clan). In the planning, all was nice. ny players have decided to play the -heir, the forst lady, the second born son, the maestre and the weapon master... all was nice in the land of the mountains and I had all my plots going until the maestre ans the first lady decided to... make out... and brag about it...
In a sessions (the second one), all my carefull planning was destroyed by 2 players who were thinking they were playing D&D...
I decide not to pass too much time on that and to continue like if (almost) nothing happened.
Let me know how it goes, we had to take 2 sessions to adjust to the combat system. but I have a group of 5 and most of them never have played rpg outside call of cthulhu and dungeon and dragons...
Do you fell like you need to take more time to prepare your games?
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