At What Point Does PF Become Its Own System?

[Bagpuss]

I think there may still be another year or so until a PF player and 3.5 player can't sit at the same table together.

I think they will always be able to sit at the same table, in so much that any gamers can sit together and play. But I find from the day of release it was different enough that is causes problems. Knowledge of 3.5 is as much of a hindrance (knowing stuff that is actually incorrect because it has slightly changed in Pathfinder) as a help.

 

[IronWolf]

This means that when, in your opinion, will there be enough changes to the rules that a 3.5 player who has no familiarity with Pathfinder will be confused by new terminology, new character options, new rules subsystems, etc.? At what point will the differences between PF and 3.5 become so great that the two will not be compatible?

I think even with the APG release a 3.5 player could still sit down at a Pathfinder table and not be confused by the terminology. They would of course need to be brought up to speed on some of the changes even the core Pathfinder rulebook made and be warned not to assume a feat or spell works *just* like it did in 3.5.

As for the APG, I see it more akin to a player sitting down to a 3.5 game who has not bought all the Complete books. They will still be able to play the game and not be confused with new terminology - they will just be missing out on some options that could have been available to them.

 

[DragonLancer]

For my purposes, Pathfinder is D&D 4e.

That's my opinion as well.


I don't think there will ever be a time that Pathfinder will suddenly become it's own system. Lots of material was published across the board for 3.X and it remained the same system regardless.

 

[Hand of Evil]

When WotC went to 4e and dropped the OGL, at that point PF became it's own system with the additional support of 3rd parties.

 

[Merry Prankster]

For my purposes, Pathfinder is D&D 4e.

Amen.

 

[DaveMage]

As long as I can use my extensive 3.5 library with it (which I can now), I don't think PF will be *completely* its own system.

That said, however, there are certainly things about it that are unique to it (CMB/CMD, classes, etc.).

I'm playing in a Rise of the Runelords game now with Pathfinder PCs (RotRL is 3.5) and it's been very smooth. The only thing we've really needed to figure out how to work is CMB/CMD.

 

[Gorbacz]

Some time ago I considered Pathfinder to be a replacement for the core books, with me still using my two bookshelves of 3.5 material. Sort of "swap out".

But now, with APG out and UM/UC on the horizon, I've decided to ditch all the 3.5 stuff and make a Brand New Beginning. Using only Paizo material, without having to worry about somebody throwing a dumpster-diving web enchantment errata from 10 years ago and forcing me to analyze how it fits with feat Y from Complete Skillmonkey 2.

Well played Paizo, well played. Just make sure the game is designed coherently and all the pieces work well together.

 

[Philosopher]

At what point will the differences between PF and 3.5 become so great that the two will not be compatible?

My friend's answer to this question was "today" (meaning, the day of the release of the APG.)

If Tome of Battle and Tome of Magic are 3.5 books, then the APG is not a new system.

I don't think we can predict when PF will be its own system. If the system continues to evolve, then one day it will be different (in the same way that 2e and 4e are different from 3e). If small changes are made over a long period of time, then there won't be a specific point in time when PF becomes its own system, even if the end point is a different system compared to when it began. If Paizo decides to make a PF2.0, then, depending on the nature of the changes, it could well be its own system at that point.

Only time will tell.

 

[El Mahdi]

..."at what point does Pathfinder become its own system?"

...when, in your opinion, will there be enough changes to the rules that a 3.5 player who has no familiarity with Pathfinder will be confused by new terminology, new character options, new rules subsystems, etc.?

...At what point will the differences between PF and 3.5 become so great that the two will not be compatible?

I feel it already is its own system. Also, I don't feel the "incompatibility" is a benchmark of being it's own system. Nor do I feel that 3.5 players would have to be confused by the system, subsystems, terminology, etc. for it to be a new system.

I'm not "confused" by 4E, and I'd definitely call that a completely new system from 3.5. Although I don't know it as thoroughly as those who play 4E, and even though I've never played it, I'm quite sure I could sit down right now and understand it well enough.

Pathfinder was born as it's own system the day the Beta-test was over, and Pathfinder was printed as a new complete RPG. At least in my opinion anyways.

 

[joela]

When WotC went to 4e and dropped the OGL, at that point PF became it's own system with the additional support of 3rd parties.

Good point.