Pathfinder 1E Pathfinder + Dark Sun

[Sir Robilar]

All the talk about Dark Sun 4E has got me EXCITED about playing in this wonderful setting once again. Last time was with 2nd edition but I was only a player then and hated the rules with a passion. Now I want to DM.

Since 4E isn´t for me I am thinking about using Pathfinder. Has anyone tried this before or is running a Dark Sun game with Pathfinder now (not like right now but more in a general way)? My problem is I´ve never converted anything...


So the difficult aspects I see straight away are:

- Psionics. Would it be balanced to use the Expanded Psionics Handbook for 3.5 as is? I have no clue whether a Psion would be powerful enough or still overpowered or whatever. Also, how should I rule Wild Talents? Back in 2nd edition everyone had about a 10% chance to have a wild talent, a little low for my tastes.

- Races. Since Pathfinder races are different I don´t know if it´s ok to use the Athas.org Dark Sun 3 races OR the races from the Dungeon Magazines.

(just a quick question, which Dark Sun version do you prefer concerning flavor and rules, the one from the magazines or the one from Athas.org?)

- Classes. What to allow and what not to allow? Should I include a Gladiator class from anywhere? Templar? I really like the idea of Themes as presented in Dark Sun 4E but don´t know how to pull it of with Pathfinder.

- Monsters is easy, since Paizo and Athas.org have done so much converting already.


Cheers,
Rob

 

[Bacris]

Honestly, the material from Athas.org should largely drop right into Pathfinder with minimal extra work, and should be relatively well balanced to it. If you want to use the Athas.org crunch with the 4E fluff, so that it's thematically consistent with the 4E book, but mechanically consistent with Pathfinder, it should probably work fine.

As for your specific questions:
By and large, the Expanded Psionics Handbook will work fine in Pathfinder, although from my personal experience playing a psion in a Pathfinder game, they are behind the power curve compared to the benefits that wizards and sorcerers get, especially at lower levels when Athas is the most deadly. You need to convert Concentration rules to concentration rules and the like... match up the revised skill lists, etc.

It's been a while since I reviewed any of the 3.5 Athas races to speak specifically, but the goal of Pathfinder was that most 3.x material could drop in and only need minor changes to work.

As for classes, I seem to recall Athas.org had some material on that aspect to work in the setting. But again, it's been a while since I visited them.

 

[Werebat]

Great idea. Athas.org had some good ideas but consider tweakig a few things that always just bugged me...

* Give the Gith leap attack as a free racial feat. They should have it.

* Thri-Kreen are Large. Design could include using the tauric creature template using a human and a giant praying mantis. This might make them problematic as a PC race but deal with it.

* Similarly, half giants should just use hill giant stats. Again, this makes them problematic as a PC race but maybe they should never have been one. You want half giants to be the "bulwarks of flesh" in service to the sorcerer kings they were meant to be? Use hill giant stats and be done with it, Mod a huge giant's stats for true Athasian giants (mountain for human headed with a psionic template for the beastheads),

OK, those last two aren't really issus with Athas.org so much as official 3E issues.

- Ron ^*^

 

[darjr]

What about the Dungeon and Dragon issues that covered Dark Sun for 3.5? I've got the Dungeon issue.

 

[TheClone]

<snip>

By and large, the Expanded Psionics Handbook will work fine in Pathfinder, although from my personal experience playing a psion in a Pathfinder game, they are behind the power curve compared to the benefits that wizards and sorcerers get, especially at lower levels when Athas is the most deadly. You need to convert Concentration rules to concentration rules and the like... match up the revised skill lists, etc.

<snip>

sure the psions from 3.5 are a little underpowered? At least the psychic warrior war more or less broken in 3.5, because it was overpowered. And to some degree this was the same for the other classes, iirc. So maybe they work well without any change.

 

[Bacris]

sure the psions from 3.5 are a little underpowered? At least the psychic warrior war more or less broken in 3.5, because it was overpowered. And to some degree this was the same for the other classes, iirc. So maybe they work well without any change.

Having played a variety of psionic characters from 3.5 across varying game styles and varying DMs, I'm going to have to disagree with you... By and large, the psychic warrior was viewed as one of the best balanced classes from the XPH.

Most of the times I've seen anything from the XPH touted as "broken", it was because people weren't following the rules or were building glass canons.

 

[Cor_Malek]

My first thought was: "bah, why not use 3.x then?", my rationale being that characters in PF get a power boost at the beginning, and DS is all about being puny. Buuut, then I remembered that for the very same reason it was advised to start them at 3rd lvl when starting a DS campaign

As to classes, races: you could just slap different name and adjust some crunch on PF classes ;-) Paladin? No you're not! You're a templar! Inquisitor you say? So you hunt down rogue wizards?

As to psion: it was never clear if he really was overpowered. And now, as all classes got a power boost, he should definitely be OK.

Races: well if you have the magazines, then just compare which ones you find easier to adjust, as it seems to be totally up to personal preference.

have a fun game!

 

[TheClone]

Having played a variety of psionic characters from 3.5 across varying game styles and varying DMs, I'm going to have to disagree with you... By and large, the psychic warrior was viewed as one of the best balanced classes from the XPH.

Most of the times I've seen anything from the XPH touted as "broken", it was because people weren't following the rules or were building glass canons.

The Psychic Warrior in our campaign some time ago definitely was bit strong. And some of the other guys in the group had a great knowledge of the rules and would have noticed any mistakes, I think. After that campaign the warrior got banned. But I admit I have never seen the other classes in action.

 

[Bacris]

That's why I said most times

There were definitely some problems in 3.5 psionics - just as there were some problems in 3.5 with any other class - wildshape with Natural Spell, cleric archer, PAO, Leadership, 15-minute adventuring day with Tiny Hut (3rd level wizard spell...), metamagic rods, divine metamagic, Inchantrix, and I could continue...

But the overall balance was solid - it simply required, in my opinion, a DM to adjudicate those situations that the designers overlooked. If you allowed an elven cleric archer without saying it was overpowered, or a wildshape-focused druid who could choose any animal form available, or a variety of other options, then the psychic warrior was no different.

And having played a wildshape-focused druid, along with a self-buff-focused cleric (just to see what all the fuss was about), I can tell you those combinations were horrendously overpowered. And I would never play one again without some DM houserules. Thankfully, Pathfinder did a bit to help with those situations - which is why the XPH can't be simply transferred directly - it will need some tweaks to fit.