So, Dark Sun: It's officially out. What do you think of it?

[Dannyalcatraz]

More accurately, I read the sentence as "can only" hold.

And as I myself pointed out- in this thread and others- WotC is notoriously imprecise in their use of language. Hence my discussion of their sloppy interchanging use of "wield"'and "hold"...or how "wield" isn't a synonym for "attack."

But the point remains that they used the word "hold" in the context of being "in combat." Even in conjunction with Multiple Arms, the most favorable RAW reading I can see is that the Bug can draw the weapon freely, but must immediately transfer the new weapon to the dominant arms.

(Which is still at odds with the art- the bow is drawn with an arrow nocked, ready to fire, and the axe is already fully drawn, not being drawn...and to my eyes, poised to strike.

 

[Gradine]

More accurately, I read the sentence as "can only" hold.

And as I myself pointed out- in this thread and others- WotC is notoriously imprecise in their use of language. Hence my discussion of their sloppy interchanging use of "wield"'and "hold"...or how "wield" isn't a synonym for "attack."

But the point remains that they used the word "hold" in the context of being "in combat." Even in conjunction with Multiple Arms, the most favorable RAW reading I can see is that the Bug can draw the weapon freely, but must immediately transfer the new weapon to the dominant arms.

(Which is still at odds with the art- the bow is drawn with an arrow nocked, ready to fire, and the axe is already fully drawn, not being drawn...and to my eyes, poised to strike.

But they don't say "can only", do they? We're arguing over what is essentially an off-handed, poorly used term ("hold") in what essentially amounts to fluff text; and WotC has already proven that its fluff writers never really pay attention to the actual game terminology. Hell, even if one takes the fluff phrasing as Word of God, it very clearly states it only applies in combat, which means outside of combat your Thri-Kreen can tote along what it damn well pleases in its lower arms. What sense does it make that your Thri-Kreen is mystically forced to sheathe/drop what it's holding as soon as the announcer shouts "ROUND ONE: FIGHT!"? None, obviously. Now, since one could easily define "wield" as "gain benefits from and the ability to use items held in combat" (in fact, wield is pretty much a combat-only term), one can easily infer that had the writing staff been paying more attention or care to the terminology that has already been established, they would have just gone with "wield."

Or it could just not even matter that much since it's fluff text.

Meanwhile, the Racial Traits block (all crunch, mind you) clearly implies that it can draw a weapon with its lower arms, and if your hand is good enough to draw a weapon it's good enough to hold it; this is just common sense. That the art also completely backs this interpretation up gives me confidence to assume that this is probably what WotC intended all along, but that's just gravy.

Of course, since none of this matters one iota in terms of actual gameplay balance, any DM worth their salt (IMHO), would let his or her player just say they're carrying their spare weapons in their lower arms instead of sheathed because, let's face, it just looks cool. And it's flavor, and no DM should be denying their players a chance for flavor unless it seriously messes with their narrative. Which this is no way could possibly ever do.

So you see, we're tilting at windmills.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

(Again, realize I'm a RAI guy playing devil's advocate for the RAW crowd...mainly because I know a LOT of RAW DMs.)

Of course, since none of this matters one iota in terms of actual gameplay balance, any DM worth their salt (IMHO), would let his or her player just say they're carrying their spare weapons in their lower arms instead of sheathed because, let's face, it just looks cool.

Are you sure? What if the weapons in question are implements? Or if that axe grants some kind of combat benefit if "held?"

The Bug on the cover is clearly in (at least ranged) combat, wielding and/or holding multiple weapons- at least one more than anyone else could.

 

[Henry]

Me, I just can't wait to get a chance for my group to play it -- which will hopefully be soon. We've all expressed an interest in it.

And I think I'm gonna play a Thri-Kreen ranger.

 

[Holy Bovine]

Not that the hold/wield/draw conversation isn't fascinating but does anyone have any actual opinions on the contents of the setting itself? I just got my copy and have been plugging through it on breaks and on the bus ride to work and I have actually been enjoying reading it. The last RPG book I like reading this much was the 3E Draconomicron (that thing was a work of art).

Even the sections that are predominantly power writeups (themes, paragon paths etc) have some interesting background on how to use them and how they mesh with the setting itself. They really seem to have figured out the atmosphere for Dark Sun and ran with it. THe sidebars on adding things like Divine classes or extinct races are welcome as they highlight how and why Dark Sun is different. I'm about 1/2 way through now and I do wish there had been more on the city states. Tyr is about right at 10 pages but the rest only get 2-3. I would have loved to see every city state get the Tyr treatment but the maps are excellent.

 

[mgbeach]

Not that the hold/wield/draw conversation isn't fascinating but does anyone have any actual opinions on the contents of the setting itself? I just got my copy and have been plugging through it on breaks and on the bus ride to work and I have actually been enjoying reading it. The last RPG book I like reading this much was the 3E Draconomicron (that thing was a work of art).

Even the sections that are predominantly power writeups (themes, paragon paths etc) have some interesting background on how to use them and how they mesh with the setting itself. They really seem to have figured out the atmosphere for Dark Sun and ran with it. THe sidebars on adding things like Divine classes or extinct races are welcome as they highlight how and why Dark Sun is different. I'm about 1/2 way through now and I do wish there had been more on the city states. Tyr is about right at 10 pages but the rest only get 2-3. I would have loved to see every city state get the Tyr treatment but the maps are excellent.

I, too, am really impressed with the setting and particularly the creature catalog. Really great work there. I agree on the city-states and was hoping they might come out with a supplement focused on them, the sorcerer kings, and dragons/avangions

 

[Holy Bovine]

I, too, am really impressed with the setting and particularly the creature catalog. Really great work there. I agree on the city-states and was hoping they might come out with a supplement focused on them, the sorcerer kings, and dragons/avangions

After hearing about the upcoming Neverwiner book for FR (to coincide with the computer game I assume) next year I am convinced we will see additional material for Dark Sun in the future. I would love for it to be out next year but that is probably a pipe dream.

 

[mgbeach]

Even if they explored the city states more through published adventures that could be cool too

 

[WanderingMonster]

I think the real question is, "Do thri-kreen females have breasts? And if so, is the lower pair just as suitable for motor-skiffing?"

 

[Holy Bovine]

I think the real question is, "Do thri-kreen females have breasts? And if so, is the lower pair just as suitable for motor-skiffing?"

***runs screaming from the thread***