L4W Discussion Thread V

[CaBaNa]

Hahaha I get it now, slipped into the full summary instead of the update doc. Wow thanks WD

 

[LogicsFate]

Let me welcome you as well.

Go ahead and build from there, once you've got that & your background done, we'll help you with the (n+9) encounter for all new l4w players. Your first fight against the template of madness.

Thanks! Have my concept down, stats and such also, now I'm wrestling with the template/wiki boss. Questions incoming when I know enough to know what I don't know.

 

[LogicsFate]

HAHA! Math section done, I think, and it only took twelve hours! Minus sleep, fiancé and eating of course.

PC:Queen(LogicsFate) - L4W Wiki

Now on to summery and more templates.

 

[Someone]

A warforged druid? Welcome to the non-breathing club. Have in mind however that the Expertise feats are disallowed: they are replaced by a free +1 untyped bonus at level 5. You can however take the Versatile expertise feat, or the Superior implement feat and use an Accurate totem.

 

[Mewness]

Hmm. I seem to recall someone's (but not Someone's) proposing that the untyped bonus to be replaced by a bonus Expertise feat at level 5. I thought this proposal passed. Doesn't seem to be in the charter, though... Am I crazy or is the charter just out of date?

 

[LogicsFate]

A warforged druid? Welcome to the non-breathing club. Have in mind however that the Expertise feats are disallowed: they are replaced by a free +1 untyped bonus at level 5. You can however take the Versatile expertise feat, or the Superior implement feat and use an Accurate totem.

The words coming out of your mouth are foreign and strange to me, luckily I have google to translate.
.
.
.
That didn't help much, Versatile expertise is the same as an expertise? Only it's a typed bonus and you get a weapon expertise thrown in? Though for all I'm planning on using weapons I might as well get [Versatile Expertise(Totem/Chair)]

After I get the summary down I might ask the you'all to do another glance over as to not waste the Judges time. Thanks for all the help!

 

[Someone]

I'll try to explain. Wizards, after releasing 4th edition, realized they screwed up with the math, because apparently basic addition is very complicated; characters' to hit bonus advanced slower than monster's defenses. Instead of errataing (sp?) the whole monster manual, which they sort of ended doing anyway with MM3, they released a feat called Expertise which everyone was supposed to take sooner or later to fix the math. The good judges of L4W, realizing that everyone would simply get the feat and thus there would be very little variation between characters (aggravated by the fact that most characters here are quite low level and have at most a couple feats) simply banned the Expertise feat and gave everyone a +1 bonus at level 5, +2 at 15 and +3 at 25 IIRC.

Later still Wizards realized they were screwing up the characters that used both weapons and implements, like paladins; they had to take two expertise feats to "fix" all their attacks. They therefore released a feat that was strictly better than Expertise, just to confuse everyone. They called it Versatile Expertise, which gives you the bonus with one implement and one weapon. This feat is, as far as I know, allowed in L4W and stacks with the free 5th level expertise bonus.

 

[evilbob]

This feat is, as far as I know, allowed in L4W and stacks with the free 5th level expertise bonus.

I think you're right but I also think that's not what the original intent of the house rule was for, so I wouldn't plan a character around it.

I can't remember which forum has decided what, if anything so far... But I am pretty sure both the L4W and LEB forums are trying to figure out a way to update the expertise house rule so that it still provides a math fix but does not accidentally give extra bonuses that weren't intended.

 

[Ozymandias79]

currently the rules are that expertise feats are not allowed until lvl 5 when you get one expertise feat for FREE and no +1 bonus at lvl 5, +2 at 15th, etc.

 

[Someone]

The L4W charter says:

From Player's Handbook 2: Amendment: The Implement Expertise and Weapon Expertise feats are disallowed, but are replaced by a free +1 bonus to all attack rolls for all characters at level 5 (this bonus increases to +2 at level 15 and +3 at level 25).