Question for the D&D old timers

[Julian Lazarus]

This is sort of an obscure question but here goes. I started playing original (basic) D&D in the mentzer era (ie the red box), about 1985.

From what I heard, when D&D was first created, Gygax was going to include hobbits, balrogs and ents, but due to copyright issues had to rename them - halflings, treants etc.

My question is, how was it that the name 'orc' was allowed to remain in the game, when AFAIK that term was originally in LOTR just like hobbit etc.

 

[Stormonu]

Well, I was going to argue that "orc" is older than Tolkien, but checking Wikipedia, it looks like good ol' JRR did come up with orc himself.

Not sure how this slipped past the Tolkien estate, but I guess its good for the hobby it did. Perhaps it had something to do with alternating between calling them orcs and goblins in the Lord of the Rings, but then you would think that hobbit/halfling would have been legal use as well.

 

[pawsplay]

Orc was not invented by Gygax. In his time, it usually referred to a sea monster, i.e. orca, but that is an unrelated meaning. The other orc is related to Orcus, and shares a root with orco, with is the Italian version of the word ogre.

Tolkien's orcs are cunning, sallow-faced, wide-nosed, and bow-legged. Gygax's orcs are stupid, green or gray, snouted, and clumsy. Hence, Gygax did not have to make any particular efforts to distiniguish his orcs from Tolkien's.

 

[Beginning of the End]

Well, I was going to argue that "orc" is older than Tolkien, but checking Wikipedia, it looks like good ol' JRR did come up with orc himself.

No exactly. He was arguably the first person to apply the word to "bestial humanoid" and also the person to popularize a word which had become completely archaic by the 20th century. But as the Wikipedia entry points out (more or less accurately as I write this) the word actually does predate Tolkien's use of it.

This is in contrast to balrog, ent, and hobbit, which are words Tolkien made up out of wholecloth (and TSR could thus be sued over).

Tolkien's orcs are cunning, sallow-faced, wide-nosed, and bow-legged. Gygax's orcs are stupid, green or gray, snouted, and clumsy. Hence, Gygax did not have to make any particular efforts to distiniguish his orcs from Tolkien's.

I don't think the differentiation you're talking about actually happened until after TSR had been sued (at least insofar as printed material is concerned). Although that's largely because the earliest rulebooks give almost no details on what D&D's orcs looked like.

 

[Aurumvorax]

It's interesting to note that they continued to use balrog throughout the entire publication run. They're mentioned several times in Chainmail and the three little brown books but are never given actual stats despite being a normal unit and being referenced almost as many times as actual dragons. Greyhawk mentions them in passing, stating how many hit dice and damage they can do plus the fact that they ride hell hounds and hydras. It wasn't until 1976 with Eldritch Wizardry that they actually created the Type 1 through Type VI demons we're used to now (although the balrog is still called BALROG).

 

[grodog]

The Acaeum gives a brief rundown of the changes between printings of Chainmail and the 1st edition OD&D rules @ Chainmail and @ Original D&D Set

In general, many many of D&D's standard/signature monsters predate D&D and Tolkien, CAS, HPL, and the other literary sources that inspired D&D by centuries, since they originate in folklore and mythology---even if they're just names that EGG lifted and changed into new monsters for D&D's purposes. Not all are like this---EGG has mentioned the mind flayer being inspired by a the cover to Lumley's The Burrowers Beneath, the Displacer Beast is from Van Vogt's Voyage of the Space Beagle, the carnivorous apes is ERB's white apes from Barsoom, and a number of others (bulette, rust monster, umber hulk, bugbear, carrion crawler, shambling mounds, nagas, and pig-faced orcs) that were inspired by the plastic toys from dime-stores in the '50s and '60s, etc. The site @ http://rpg.crg4.com/origins.html also looks like it provides some good details (and is where I snagged the Van Vogt reference---I had misremembered it as Andre Norton).

Tolkien was certainly a big influence on D&D (spectres are the genericized versions of Nazgul, too), but by no means the only one or even the primary one.

 

[S'mon]

None of this bears much relation to the actual law on Intellectual Property. You cannot gain copyright a word, for instance - and if you could, then you could stop *anyone* from using it. A claim over Ent, Balrog, Orc or Hobbit (none of which words except possibly balrog* were created by Tolkien, though all were obscure) must vest in Trade Marks law, not Copyright. Tolkien Enterprises lawyers presumably claimed TSR were infringing their marks. This looks like a very weak claim to me, both that they actually were valid TMs and that TSR's use of them was infringing.

You *can* gain copyright over the expression of an idea. Potentially this could give copyright protection to Tolkien's hobbits or Lucas' Ewoks as copyright works, but in that case changing the name of the race would not be a legal defense.

I think what we are dealing with here is publisher-wrangling that is only very tangentially related to anything that could be called 'Law'.

*Balrog is the only one I've not seen a pre-Tolkien use of.

 

[Wicht]

I'm 99.9 percent sure Tolkien did not invent Hobbit, though he applied it in an original way. I'd have to dig out the reference books though to find where it is used. "Hob" is a word applied to a variety of fairy folks and goblins.

 

[Wicht]

The works of Michael Aislabie Denham (?-1859) were collected and published in 1892 and 1895. Volume II (pp 77-80) lists a variety of fairies and nighthaunts. Hobbits were among that list, meaning it was a word, like hobgoblin, used to describe a type of fairy. It was likely a local word for a type of brownie (an educated guess on my part). It would be hard to say if Tolkien drew the name from his own childhood memories or from the Denham Tracts, but either way he did not invent the word "Hobbit."

My source, for those interested, is Katharine Brigg's "An Encyclopedia of Fairies," which I highly recommend for anyone interested in english folklore.

EDIT: heh. should have checked wikipedia first. The relevant tract entry is given in the Wikipedia Denham Tract page

 

[grodog]

*Balrog is the only one I've not seen a pre-Tolkien use of.

I imagine that Nazgûl is another (and it appeared in the OD&D rules as well), but I havent' researched any of this, so....