Tabletopocalypse Now - GMS' thoughts about the decline in the hobby

[Chaos Disciple]

Saying that D&D can't be a "real game" because it has a lot of variants and then pointing to Chess as your example of what a "real game" looks like is, frankly, ludicrous.

Actually I said D&D not a "real" game because its a published IP, and the publishing industry doesnt produce games it produces books about games.


Chess is not a contained in a book, D&D is, and real games are played and not read.

oh and please give me a good example of a thousand year old game thats printed in books and changes every year. I dont think one exists.

 

[Chrono22]

For one, I think Mountaineering - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia gives decent evidence that mountain climbing as sport is only three hundred years ago. The first attempt on Mont Blanc, the obvious challenge sitting in the middle of a populated, wealthy area was only attempted 235 years ago. The end of national parks, the end of readily available maps and mountain climbing tools, and the end of the social spirit that encouraged those things, and mountain climbing would die out.

Secondly, roleplaying games are about 35 years old. I think that when claiming that something is an immortal part of the human spirit, that thing needs to be more than 35 years old.

One, people climbed mountains for recreation before it was called "mountaineering".
Two, any kind of make-believe with rules included qualifies as a role playing game. This is something children do at a very early age without encouragement.
These things are an immortal part of the human spirit. RPGs weren't invented 35 years ago. Climbing mountains wasn't invented 235 years ago. Come on now.

 

[jonesy]

Actually I said D&D not a "real" game because its a published IP, and the publishing industry doesnt produce games it produces books about games.

I think your definitions need a bit more work.

Chess is not a contained in a book, D&D is, and real games are played and not read.

Well, there goes every single reading game.

oh and please give me a good example of a thousand year old game thats printed in books and changes every year. I dont think one exists.

Chess. The official tournament rules are revised almost every year. And all of the rules for all of the versions are printed somewhere. Or do you honestly believe it moves on by word of mouth alone?

 

[Chaos Disciple]

I think your definitions need a bit more work.


Well, there goes every single reading game.


Chess. The official tournament rules are revised almost every year. And all of the rules for all of the versions are printed somewhere. Or do you honestly believe it moves on by word of mouth alone?

Are you suggesting that chess is in some way a form of published intellectual property?

Becuase if your not, I cant figure out how your post releates to what ive said.

 

[Umbran]

Live by the wiki, die by the wiki: if you don't agree with the timeline in the article you cited to support your position, I can hardly accept you as an honest debater.

Done.

Or you could, you know, accept that maybe another person has different standards than you for what qualifies as "the same" and not get all hyperbolic and start insinuating they are dishonest.

Just sayin'.

 

[jonesy]

Are you suggesting that chess is in some way a form of published intellectual property?

You'd be surprised how complicated that question used to be:
Copyright on Chess Games by Edward Winter

 

[prosfilaes]

Or you could, you know, accept that maybe another person has different standards than you for what qualifies as "the same" and not get all hyperbolic and start insinuating they are dishonest.

The problem is he's implying that AD&D had major changes between 1980 and 1984, and yet Chess without the queen, with other major changes, is still the same. It's a double standard.

 

[Cergorach]

Get your chess our of my RPG!!! ;-)

 

[prosfilaes]

One, people climbed mountains for recreation before it was called "mountaineering".

The first attempt to climb to the top of Mont Blanc was 235 years ago. The first climb to the top of Ben Nevis, the highest point in Britain (all of 1,344 meters tall), was only 4 years earlier. You can always stretch definitions to make something as old as you want it, but people did not habitually go around saying "hey, that's a tall mountain; I think I'll climb it." until a couple hundred years ago.

Two, any kind of make-believe with rules included qualifies as a role playing game. This is something children do at a very early age without encouragement.

Again, a game of definitions. If all that survives is a game that children play that bears a close resemblance rules-wise to Calvin-ball, I will not consider that a survival of the hobby. The definition of RPG I use requires a little more sophistication, and puts the first RPG at around 35 years ago.

 

[Chrono22]

You're missing my main point, then. RPGs came out of the make believe games children naturally intuit (this includes things like wargames). The ability to project onto objects, to imagine, is something people do in their formative years, it's part of growing up. Mountaineering came out of the natural human desire to explore the unknown and test ourselves. I mentioned mountaneering- but really you can expand my idea to encompass any form of exploration. Let's not belabor the point by trying to niggle on the details.

Even if the industry side of these hobbies were to vanish without a trace, the hobbies would persist. And eventually the industry would come back anyway, to fill the needs of these hobbyists.