Golem Immunity

[Sorrowdusk]

WHY are Golems immune to magic-not just resistance but immunity to anything that would normally allow resistance?
Where did the idea come from?
Does it have any folkloric base?
Is it something D&D did to be different, or is there design commentary?
Or was it always that way?

I always wondered why that was a trait across the whole lot of them. The one thing I can say about it, is that since wizards are the ones who USUALLY create them, if that %chance for them to break free of control and go rogue ever came up, well, the wizard would be mostly screwed. (which is why I think they later made Ray of Deanimation). I do note the Summon Golem spell in PHB 2 for divine casters; I think they would be extra effective against clerics because it seems to me they have even fewer effective spells against them than wizards do or psions do whom could turn to a some conjuration or metacreativity (what do clerics have besides Comet Fall and Slime Wave?)

 

[Dandu]

If a golem goes berserk, a Wizard has several options.

1. Cast Wall of Force. It's not breakable.
2. Cast Grease. Golems have horrible reflex saves and balance.
3. Cast Sleet Storm. It requires a balance check for movement as well.
4. Cast Web. Entangle's a huge pain for people on the ground.
5. Cast Glitterdust. Golems have poor will saves.
6. Cast Solid Fog. Golems do not have Freedom of Movement.
7. Cast Fly. Golems can't fly.
8. Cast Dimension Door. Golems can't teleport.
9. Cast Invisibility. Golems can't see invisible things. In fact, they tend to do poorly with illusions as a rule.
10. Cast Summon Monster. You can summon a hoard of angels.
11. Cast an Orb spell. Let's hear it for the Conjuration school.

Really, it seems that the entire Conjuration school is one big "Screw You" to golems.

I think they would be extra effective against clerics because it seems to me they have even fewer effective spells against them than wizards do or psions do whom could turn to a some conjuration or metacreativity (what do clerics have besides Comet Fall and Slime Wave?)

Offhand? Sanctuary. Air Walk. Divine Power. Righteous Might. Wall of Stone. Summon Monster.

 

[Jacob]

The one thing I can say about it, is that since wizards are the ones who USUALLY create them...

Except the Clay Golem, which requires Commune and Resurrection to create. But that's beside the point...

Golems are the defenders of the magic users. They have the ability to shrug off magic to ward off other potential magic threats (and the physical ones they can't handle). That's the way I've always saw it. If there's a more defined reason for it, I would like to know myself.

 

[Ahnehnois]

WHY are Golems immune to magic-not just resistance but immunity to anything that would normally allow resistance?
Where did the idea come from?
Does it have any folkloric base?
Is it something D&D did to be different, or is there design commentary?
Or was it always that way?

Spell Resistance was a new idea for 3e. In 2e, at least, it was fairly common for powerful creatures to have a percentage-based resistance to magic, which did not take into account the power of the caster and was essentially a miss chance for spells. Golems were one of a number of creatures that had or could get 100% magic resistance. They decided to translate it to 3e in the way you've observed to maintain the flavor and role of the golem.

I am not enough of a D&D historian to go back any further or explain why this was started.

As others have noted, golems present an interesting but not impossible tactical challenge for a wizard (or other character).

 

[fireinthedust]

why?

1) PC wizards go after magical treasures. Guard them with spell-immune tanks.

2) in theory, Wizards are the most powerful class at higher levels. If your competition are wizards, you make something that can ignore their spells.

While they can go wild, the trick is using them in a way that avoids that. Put them in a dungeon, near something you want safe from wizards.

Also the berserk (in Pathfinder, at least) is only for flesh and clay golems. Iron golems work great. They also have a shield guardian template various golem types can use.

 

[Sorry_Charry]

Except the Clay Golem, which requires Commune and Resurrection to create. But that's beside the point...

The divine connection makes sense. The origin of the golem in Jewish folklore/religious history might have something to do with that.

Interesting side note... whilst viewing what Wikipedia had to say on the subject of golems, it turns out that there are more legendary Jewish creatures that have found their way to D&D's monstrous compendiums. The Dybbuk among them.

 

[Jacob]

The divine connection makes sense. The origin of the golem in Jewish folklore/religious history might have something to do with that.

I didn't even think you would gain some insight to what you were looking for when I said that. Was just making a random whip at the time. Good to see it worked out.

And the Dybbuk wiki article has just given me some logic to why the Ghost keeps coming back via its Rejuvenation power. Interesting!

 

[Sorrowdusk]

The divine connection makes sense. The origin of the golem in Jewish folklore/religious history might have something to do with that.

Interesting side note... whilst viewing what Wikipedia had to say on the subject of golems, it turns out that there are more legendary Jewish creatures that have found their way to D&D's monstrous compendiums. The Dybbuk among them.

Yes, I'd noticed the Dybbukim myself. I knew about the golems folklore connection, but only know am I noticing the clerical/divine aspect really.

 

[TanisFrey]

And Flesh Golem go berserk due to the influence of their inspiration, Frankenstein's Monster, at least the early movie versions. The book had the monster both intelligence and pissed at Dr. Frankenstein because he refused to make him a bride equal to him.

I think that Gary & company would have seen Dr. Frankenstein as a example of a wizard-type in the 1800. Therefore they made flesh golem as a type wizards could make, Clerics could also make them due to the fact you were breathing new life into dead flesh.

 

[TanisFrey]

Spell Resistance was a new idea for 3e. In 2e, at least, it was fairly common for powerful creatures to have a percentage-based resistance to magic, which did not take into account the power of the caster and was essentially a miss chance for spells. Golems were one of a number of creatures that had or could get 100% magic resistance. They decided to translate it to 3e in the way you've observed to maintain the flavor and role of the golem.

I am not enough of a D&D historian to go back any further or explain why this was started.

As others have noted, golems present an interesting but not impossible tactical challenge for a wizard (or other character).

1st ed spell resistance was the listed +/- 5% per level the caster was under/over the creatures. Ever level the caster was over the hit dice of the monster the spell resistance decreased by 5% and every level the caster was under the monster hit dice you increased the spell resistance by 5%. It maxed at 98%.
2 ed spell resistance was a flat d%.
3.x spell resistance is much closer to 1ed spell resistance but using a d20 instead of d%. Here you have a 50/50 of effecting the monster, if you level equals the monster's SR-10.

However, Golems were listed as being out right immune to magic except for the listed spells in 1ed if I remember correctly. Golem in 2ed were the just about the only creatures that had a 100% spell resistance in 2ed, still with the exceptions built in.