Wizards: Musings on the new DDi disaster

[P1NBACK]

Is this irreparable damage to D&D? I'd like to think not.

MerricB, I'd give you XP, but it seems I have recently somewhere else.

I agree completely with your OP. I was a staunch supporter of 4E throughout, and I even like the changes in Essentials as I've become quite jaded with the original 4E.

However, this whole D&DI debacle has really made me second guess my commitment to 4E D&D. I've decided it is irreparable damage for me.

I was an annual subscriber to 4E since the first year. I've been playing 4E since I bought the Keep on the Shadowfell before the core books even came out.

What can I say? There's tons of other great games out there that I can be playing and dealing with.

Thanks for expressing my disappointment for me.

I'll probably hit D&D up again around 5E.

For those of you continuing on your support, good luck guys! I wish you well.

 

[Sunseeker]

...snip...

So they made good products, good books, you enjoy the game, and one small, secondary accessory thing goes wrong, and you dump it completly.

I'm sorry, but that doesn't sound like "commitment" to me. That sounds like "looking for an excuse."

Here's the clincher. You don't NEED DDI to play the game. You don't need Dungeon, you don't need dragon, and you don't need 90% of the books, accessories, minis, and whatnot they make as well to play 4e.

Saying that you're dropping the ENTIRE game over DDI, is like saying you're dropping the entire game over the latest mini you opened that was damaged in box.

 

[Scribble]

Much in the same boat as you. I've got plenty of dead tree material to last me years. Have yet to buy any 4e product for myself as of yet (unless you count minis on occassion).
I would fall into that casual gamer for 4e in your group. I'm all about 3.5e. But the DM for the 4e game let me have a copy of the CB to let me try a few different builds than email him the character file so he had a copy and could recommend a few things that I missed or might be a better fit for my play style.
That experience really opened me up to playing in a 4e game.

Moving to an online only format, you lose players like myself. I'll just stay in the older editions and be happy doing it.

But isn't what you're saying here essentially- I never bought anything for 4e, and even the old CB format didn't cause me to buy something for 4e, and I don't plan on doing so in the future?

So the net sum is... pretty much nil... Isn't it?

What happens when 5e comes out, does this version stay available or does it just simple go away and is replaced with a 5e version of it? What happens to all your characters you have stored on their servers at the time of the switch?

Since the tool has been, and continues to be a tool in support of the current edition, I imagine it will either be updated to the new info, or discontinued entirely.

You'll probably need to print/export your characters before some date if you want to keep them.

 

[P1NBACK]

Saying that you're dropping the ENTIRE game over DDI, is like saying you're dropping the entire game over the latest mini you opened that was damaged in box.

You can interpret it like that.

But, I would never equate a damaged product (likely the result of shipping) that I can return and exchange to a botched, unorganized, mis-communicated, mishandled, and obvious lack of vision like D&D Insider.

You don't need 4E to play D&D. How about that? I can go play Basic D&D, 1E D&D, 2E D&D, 3E, 3.5, Pathfinder, etc... etc... Or, even other games like Burning Wheel or In A Wicked Age if I want a fantasy RPG.

Like I said, good luck with your game of choice.

 

[TheYeti1775]

And anything you create still is.


Except, it was still their IP. Did you build a Deva? Oh! Guess what that's Wizard's IP. Did you build a tiefling rogue? oh! Look more WotC IP. You don't own your characters, they are at best, fan-art, which is only legal so long as WotC says it is. If WotC were to say "we officially announce that any rule, any character, any world you create with out system is ours." then they would be legally within their rights.

Game rules aren't copyrightable.

Wizard's doesn't create the backstory's for any of my characters, I do. I generally store that information on the character sheet I use. I've created things from 'me Ugh the Barbarian' to 6 page family histories on characters I've created.
Nor do they own 'deva' as a concept because it's been around much longer than D&D.

And no, they wouldn't be legally within their rights to any of it if I create something. What I referred to was a change in the Terms of Service/Use of their forums a few years back during the Gleemax start. One of them specifically stated on owning it all on their forums if you posted it and agreed to the new ToS when you logged in.
So I would advise anyone using the Online CB to carefully read the ToS they have for your information you put in. Especially those of you talking about putting your houseruled information into it.

Their actions won't really affect me much as I won't be using it. Me and the deadtrees will do just fine on our own.

 

[Sunseeker]

You can interpret it like that.

But, I would never equate a damaged product (likely the result of shipping) that I can return and exchange to a botched, unorganized, mis-communicated, mishandled, and obvious lack of vision like D&D Insider.

You don't need 4E to play D&D. How about that? I can go play Basic D&D, 1E D&D, 2E D&D, 3E, 3.5, Pathfinder, etc... etc... Or, even other games like Burning Wheel or In A Wicked Age if I want a fantasy RPG.

Like I said, good luck with your game of choice.

See, you're not even open to discussion of that decision. You came in here, with no intent to add to the discussion just to say "bye!"

And in reality, no, you can't play D&D without 4e. Oh yes, YOU don't have to use the 4e system, but lets face it, it's much easier to find a 4e game than a 3.x, a 2e, or 1e game.

Why? Because those games are out of production for starters. Because new players aren't being exposed to them on a regular basis. Because new players can't buy books for them readily. I know several people who'd like to do a 2e game, except that none of them even live in the same state.

No, you don't need to play the latest edition, but you NEED Wizards to keep making D&D.

 

[Scribble]

You can interpret it like that.

But, I would never equate a damaged product (likely the result of shipping) that I can return and exchange to a botched, unorganized, mis-communicated, mishandled, and obvious lack of vision like D&D Insider.

You don't need 4E to play D&D. How about that? I can go play Basic D&D, 1E D&D, 2E D&D, 3E, 3.5, Pathfinder, etc... etc... Or, even other games like Burning Wheel or In A Wicked Age if I want a fantasy RPG.

Like I said, good luck with your game of choice.

I think what's confusing ME here is that it seems like you're saying, even though you've expressed a like for the system, and the products, you're leaving those behind because of mismanagement of an optional separate component?

I'm not trying to say your motives are wrong- everyone has their own, just confused by them.

 

[the Jester]

AIf WotC were to say "we officially announce that any rule, any character, any world you create with out system is ours." then they would be legally within their rights.

Uh, no.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Except, it was still their IP. Did you build a Deva? Oh! Guess what that's Wizard's IP. Did you build a tiefling rogue? oh! Look more WotC IP. You don't own your characters, they are at best, fan-art, which is only legal so long as WotC says it is. If WotC were to say "we officially announce that any rule, any character, any world you create with out system is ours." then they would be legally within their rights.

How is the air up there?

 

[TheYeti1775]

But isn't what you're saying here essentially- I never bought anything for 4e, and even the old CB format didn't cause me to buy something for 4e, and I don't plan on doing so in the future?

So the net sum is... pretty much nil... Isn't it?

Actually a better explanation of it is the old CB format allowed me to partake in a 4E game, where I otherwised shunned it. The ruleset isn't for me overall.
Your right they lose no money on myself over this, they lost it a couple years ago in my case.

In my case it is an example of how sharing of the CB gained a player for a 4E game rather than that player just not playing at all.
My group I had just joined knew I wasn't a fan of 4E, they wanted to play a game of it to try one of the modules (they all play in other games mostly other systems).
Rather than just not playing (I only game once a week) for the couple of months of 4e they played, I gave it a shot using the 4e. They asked for my feed back on the various things. I told them what I liked and what I disliked about it. (not going into those as it takes away from the topic)
The point being using the CB allowed for a grognard like myself to play, enjoy the game, not be too caught up into the rule changes.
Where we play there isn't a good internet connection and generally we don't have laptops at the table, so being able to share the character back and forth allowed for updates to be done easily and allowed the DM to easily have a character copy in the event someone couldn't make it that night.

Since the tool has been, and continues to be a tool in support of the current edition, I imagine it will either be updated to the new info, or discontinued entirely.

You'll probably need to print/export your characters before some date if you want to keep them.

See that's the main point, old format, your CB character is yours for life however you store it/maintain it.
New online format, there isn't a thing that says:
"January 1, 2011 - WotC announces they are releasing 5e on January 2, 2011."
And they simply flip the switch on the Online CB for 4.0 to 5.0.

Not a thing you can do about it except pop online and rant and rave.
Old CB format, you simple say ok, no more updates, all my information is safely stored on my system. Maybe I'll give the new one a try.

I would hope they are smart enough though to have lead time on the information for those using it, or allow support of multiple editions as they move forward.