Converting "Real World" Animals and Vermin

[freyar]

I think Huge like the giant mouse but heftier (in dimensions/weight and probably HD) and with a higher advancement range.

 

[Cleon]

I think Huge like the giant mouse but heftier (in dimensions/weight and probably HD) and with a higher advancement range.

I disagree. The SRD Rat is Tiny while the official stats for a Mouse say its Fine.

Therefore, I'd go for Gargantuan for a Titanic Rat.

 

[Cleon]

Updated. Finished?

The Giant Mouse looks good.

Getting back to the Titanic Rat, we could just use the MM2 Titanic Creature template on a Dire Rat and it'd probably do.

Alternatively, I suggested over on the Mystaran Gargantua thread doing a Rat as a sample creature, we could use that (although a Titanic Dire Rat would probably be a better match to the Giant Mouse than a Mystaran Gargantua Rat would be).

Better still, let's do both and compare them!

 

[Cleon]

I disagree. The SRD Rat is Tiny while the official stats for a Mouse say its Fine.

Therefore, I'd go for Gargantuan for a Titanic Rat.

On second thought, the Giant Mouse we did was inspired by the Small-sized Dire Mouse homebrew we did, not the Fine-sized mundane mouse, so I'm OK with the Titanic Rat being Huge.

The Giant Mouse looks good.

Getting back to the Titanic Rat, we could just use the MM2 Titanic Creature template on a Dire Rat and it'd probably do.

Alternatively, I suggested over on the Mystaran Gargantua thread doing a Rat as a sample creature, we could use that (although a Titanic Dire Rat would probably be a better match to the Giant Mouse than a Mystaran Gargantua Rat would be).

Better still, let's do both and compare them!

And I've gone and done it. Here's the SRD Rat and Dire Rat with those templates applied. Out of the four, I think the Mystaran Gargantue Dire Rat is closest to what I was thinking of for the Titanic Rat.

Titanic Rat [SRD plus Monster Manual 2 Titanic Template]
Gargantuan Animal
Hit Dice: 25d8+200 (312 hp)
Initiative: +0
Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares), climb 15 ft., swim 15 ft.
Armor Class: 26 (-4 size, +20 natural), touch 6, flat-footed 26
Base Attack/Grapple: +18/+43
Attack: Bite +27 melee (3d8+19)
Full Attack: Bite +27 melee (3d8+19)
Space/Reach: 20 ft./15 ft.
Special Attacks: Trample 3d8+19
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +22, Ref +14, Will +15
Abilities: Str 36, Dex 10, Con 26, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 2
Skills: Balance +8, Climb +23, Hide -6, Move Silently +8, Swim +21
Feats: Stealthy, Weapon Finesse (B)
Environment: Any
Organization: Solitary, pair, or cluster (3–5)
Challenge Rating: 13
Advancement: —
Level Adjustment: —

These omnivorous rodents thrive almost anywhere.

COMBAT
Rats usually run away. They bite only as a last resort.

Trample (Ex): As a standard action during its turn each round, a titanic rat can trample a Huge or smaller opponent. This attack deals 3d8+19 points of bludgeoning damage. A trampled opponent can attempt either an attack of opportunity at a –4 penalty or a Reflex save (DC 35) for half damage. The save DC is Strength-based.

Skills: Rats have a +4 racial bonus on Hide and Move Silently checks, and a +8 racial bonus on Balance, Climb, and Swim checks. A rat can always choose to take 10 on Climb checks, even if rushed or threatened. A rat uses its Dexterity modifier instead of its Strength modifier for Climb and Swim checks. A rat has a +8 racial bonus on any Swim check to perform some special action or avoid a hazard. It can always choose to take 10 on a Swim check, even if distracted or endangered. It can use the run action while swimming, provided it swims in a straight line.


Titanic Dire Rat [SRD plus Monster Manual 2 Titanic Template]
Gargantuan Animal (Dire)
Hit Dice: 25d8+225 (337 hp)
Initiative: +0
Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares), climb 20 ft.
Armor Class: 26 (-4 size, +20 natural), touch 6, flat-footed 26
Base Attack/Grapple: +18/+45
Attack: Bite +29 melee (3d8+22)
Full Attack: Bite +29 melee (3d8+22)
Space/Reach: 20 ft./15 ft.
Special Attacks: Disease, trample 3d8+22
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +23, Ref +14, Will +15
Abilities: Str 40, Dex 11, Con 28, Int 1, Wis 12, Cha 4
Skills: Climb +23, Hide -11, Listen +4, Move Silently +1, Spot +4, Swim +23
Feats: Alertness, Weapon Finesse (B)
Environment: Any
Organization: Solitary, pair, or cluster (3–5)
Challenge Rating: 13
Advancement: —
Level Adjustment: —

Titanic dire rats are omnivorous scavengers, but will attack to defend their nests and territories.

A titanic dire rat can grow to be up to 64 feet long and weigh over 200,000 pounds.

COMBAT
Dire rat packs attack fearlessly, biting and chewing with their sharp incisors.

Disease (Ex): Filth fever—bite, Fortitude DC 31, incubation period 1d3 days, damage 1d3 Dex and 1d3 Con. The save DC is Constitution-based.

Trample (Ex): As a standard action during its turn each round, a titanic dire rat can trample a Huge or smaller opponent. This attack deals 3d8+22 points of bludgeoning damage. A trampled opponent can attempt either an attack of opportunity at a –4 penalty or a Reflex save (DC 37) for half damage. The save DC is Strength-based.

Skills: Titanic dire rats have a +8 racial bonus on Swim checks. Titanic dire rats have a +8 racial bonus on Climb checks and can always choose to take 10 on Climb checks, even if rushed or threatened.

Titanic dire rats can use their Dexterity modifier instead of their Strength modifier for Climb and Swim checks.


Mystaran Gargantua Rat [Homebrew]
Huge Animal
Hit Dice: 8d8+24 (60 hp)
Initiative: +1
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares), climb 30 ft., swim 30 ft.
Armor Class: 11 (-2 size, +1 Dex, +2 natural), touch 9, flat-footed 10
Base Attack/Grapple: +6/+19
Attack: Bite +10 melee (2d6+7)
Full Attack: Bite +10 melee (2d6+7)
Space/Reach: 15 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Trample 2d8+7
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +11, Ref +7, Will +3
Abilities: Str 20, Dex 13, Con 16, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 2
Skills: Balance +9, Climb +15, Hide +3, Listen +5, Move Silently +10, Spot +5, Swim +13
Feats: Alertness, Stealthy, Weapon Finesse (B), Weapon Focus (bite)
Environment: Any
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 5
Advancement: —
Level Adjustment: —

These omnivorous rodents thrive almost anywhere.

COMBAT
Rats usually run away. They bite only as a last resort.

Trample (Ex): As a standard action during its turn each round, a Mystaran gargantua rat can trample a Large or smaller opponent. This attack deals 2d8+7 points of bludgeoning damage. A trampled opponent can attempt either an attack of opportunity at a –4 penalty or a Reflex save (DC 19) for half damage. The save DC is Strength-based.

Skills: Rats have a +4 racial bonus on Hide and Move Silently checks, and a +8 racial bonus on Balance, Climb, and Swim checks. A rat can always choose to take 10 on Climb checks, even if rushed or threatened. A rat uses its Dexterity modifier instead of its Strength modifier for Climb and Swim checks. A rat has a +8 racial bonus on any Swim check to perform some special action or avoid a hazard. It can always choose to take 10 on a Swim check, even if distracted or endangered. It can use the run action while swimming, provided it swims in a straight line.


Mystaran Gargantua Dire Rat [Homebrew]
Huge Animal
Hit Dice: 12d8+72 (126 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 80 ft. (16 squares), climb 40 ft.
Armor Class: 16 (-2 size, +2 Dex, +6 natural), touch 10, flat-footed 14
Base Attack/Grapple: +9/+27
Attack: Bite +18 melee (3d6+15/19-20 plus disease)
Full Attack: Bite +18 melee (3d6+15/19-20 plus disease)
Space/Reach: 15 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Disease, trample 2d8+15
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +14, Ref +10, Will +9
Abilities: Str 30, Dex 15, Con 22, Int 1, Wis 12, Cha 4
Skills: Climb +18, Hide +4, Listen +6, Move Silently +5, Spot +6, Swim +18
Feats: Alertness, Improved Critical (bite), Power Attack, Stealthy, Weapon Finesse (B), Weapon Focus (bite)
Environment: Any
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 6
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: 13-24 HD (Huge); 25-48 HD (Gargantuan)
Level Adjustment: —

Mystaran gargantua dire rats are omnivorous scavengers, but will attack to defend their nests and territories.

A Mystaran gargantua dire rat can grow to be up to 32 feet long and weigh over 32000 pounds.

COMBAT
Mystaran gargantua dire rats attack fearlessly, biting and chewing with their sharp incisors.

Disease (Ex): Filth fever—bite, Fortitude DC 32, incubation period 1d3 days, damage 1d3+1d6 Dex and 1d3+1d6 Con. The save DC is Constitution-based.

Trample (Ex): As a standard action during its turn each round, a Mystaran gargantua dire rat can trample a Large or smaller opponent. This attack deals 2d8+15 points of bludgeoning damage. A trampled opponent can attempt either an attack of opportunity at a –4 penalty or a Reflex save (DC 26) for half damage. The save DC is Strength-based.

Skills: Dire rats have a +8 racial bonus on Swim checks. Dire rats have a +8 racial bonus on Climb checks and can always choose to take 10 on Climb checks, even if rushed or threatened.

Dire rats use their Dexterity modifier for Climb and Swim checks.

 

[freyar]

Gonna take me a while to go through those stats.

I find it funny that a regular rat is listed as Tiny and not Diminutive anyway. Tiny is over 1 ft long, and most rats aren't quite that big if you don't count the tail.

 

[Cleon]

Gonna take me a while to go through those stats.

I find it funny that a regular rat is listed as Tiny and not Diminutive anyway. Tiny is over 1 ft long, and most rats aren't quite that big if you don't count the tail.

Yes, I'd have made rats Diminutive if I was writing the 3E rules. Maybe they did it so weapons did half damage to Rat Swarms?

 

[freyar]

Quite possibly.

So, what are your thoughts on the giant rat? Mix and match from the above 4 options?

 

[Shade]

So, what are your thoughts on the giant rat? Mix and match from the above 4 options?

That would be my preference. I'd rather not have them straight-template samples and keep 'em unique (like the mouse). DMs can use the templates themselves.

 

[freyar]

Str 30, Dex 13, Con 26, Int 1, Wis 12, Cha 2?

 

[Cleon]

That would be my preference. I'd rather not have them straight-template samples and keep 'em unique (like the mouse). DMs can use the templates themselves.

Ok, so how about taking the Mystaran Dire Rat, increasing the HD a bit (to, say, 16 HD?) and giving it the giant mouse's improved grab and gnaw SAs?

The speed ought to be similar to the Giant Mouse, except it has a Swim speed.

I'll also give it Int 2, since rats are not stupid animals.

That'd look something like this:

Titanic Rat
Huge Animal
Hit Dice: 16d8+96 (168 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares), climb 20 ft., swim 30 ft.
Armor Class: 16 (-2 size, +2 Dex, +6 natural), touch 10, flat-footed 14
Base Attack/Grapple: +12/+30
Attack: Bite +21 melee (3d6+15/19-20 plus disease)
Full Attack: Bite +21 melee (3d6+15/19-20 plus disease)
Space/Reach: 15 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Disease, gnaw, improved grab, trample 2d8+15
Special Qualities: Dire, low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +16, Ref +12, Will +13
Abilities: Str 30, Dex 15, Con 22, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 4
Skills: Climb +18, Hide +4, Listen +6, Move Silently +5, Spot +6, Swim +18
Feats: Alertness, Improved Critical (bite), Power Attack, Stealthy, Weapon Focus (bite)
Environment: Any
Organization: Solitary or pack (5-10)
Challenge Rating: 7
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: 17-24 HD (Huge); 25-48 HD (Gargantuan)
Level Adjustment: —

Titanic rats are omnivorous scavengers, but will attack to defend their nests and territories.

A typical titanic rat is 30 feet long and weighs about 30,000 pounds.

COMBAT
Titanic rats attack fearlessly, biting and chewing with their sharp incisors.

Disease (Ex): Filth fever—bite, Fortitude DC 24, incubation period 1d3 days, damage 2d4 Dex and 2d4 Con. The save DC is Constitution-based.

Dire (Ex): A titanic rat is considered to be a dire animal for the purposes of saving throws.

Gnaw (Ex): A titanic rat deals automatic bite damage every round it maintains a grapple.

Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, a titanic rat must hit with a bite attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity.

Trample (Ex): As a standard action during its turn each round, a titanic rat can trample a Large or smaller opponent. This attack deals 2d8+15 points of bludgeoning damage. A trampled opponent can attempt either an attack of opportunity at a –4 penalty or a Reflex save (DC 28) for half damage. The save DC is Strength-based.

Skills: Titanic rats have a +8 racial bonus on Swim checks. Titanic rats have a +8 racial bonus on Climb checks and can always choose to take 10 on Climb checks, even if rushed or threatened.