Question for players: how much reading is okay before a campaign?

[Dausuul]

Your DM has a cool idea for a new campaign. He's either written some setting material himself, or purchased a setting that he thinks will rock. He's told you the basic gist of the game, but he'd like each of the players to read some material before making characters. How much would you be willing to read, if you're the player, not the DM?

It really depends on what's in it.

Message to all DMs: I have absolutely no interest in reading the long, turgid backstory of your campaign world. None. Zero. Nada. If the backstory is crucial to understanding the setting, sketch it out in one (1) paragraph and be done with it; and by "paragraph" I do not mean "six-page wall of text." No more than half a page, single-spaced, 12-point font.

Now, if your campaign intro contains stuff that is immediately useful to me (like, "This is the town/country you start in and important personages there, this is how elves are in this world, this is how dwarves are, this is how arcane magic is") and written in a concise, efficient way, I'm okay with 2-5 pages, maybe even 10... although I will be annoyed if you expect me to have those pages memorized.

For my own campaigns, I typically write a brief introductory section--less than one page--which gives an overview of the setting, followed by a few pages of reference material. I expect everybody to read the intro, and the reference material directly relevant to their PCs (e.g., if you're an elf, you need to read the bit about elves). Everything else is strictly optional, meant to be read as needed during the game. I don't expect anybody to memorize the section on world geography, but if you're going to the Plains of Ashah, you might want to glance over that section and see what it has to say about the Plains.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

It really depends on what's in it.

Message to all DMs: I have absolutely no interest in reading the long, turgid backstory of your campaign world. None. Zero. Nada. If the backstory is crucial to understanding the setting, sketch it out in one (1) paragraph and be done with it; and by "paragraph" I do not mean "six-page wall of text." No more than half a page, single-spaced, 12-point font.

Now, if your campaign intro contains stuff that is immediately useful to me (like, "This is the town/country you start in and important personages there, this is how elves are in this world, this is how dwarves are, this is how arcane magic is") and written in a concise, efficient way, I'm okay with 2-5 pages, maybe even 10... although I will be annoyed if you expect me to have those pages memorized.

For my own campaigns, I typically write a brief introductory section--less than one page--which gives an overview of the setting, followed by a few pages of reference material. I expect everybody to read the intro, and the reference material directly relevant to their PCs (e.g., if you're an elf, you need to read the bit about elves). Everything else is strictly optional, meant to be read as needed during the game. I don't expect anybody to memorize the section on world geography, but if you're going to the Plains of Ashah, you might want to glance over that section and see what it has to say about the Plains.

Way to fail there with hypocrisy.

You want a paragraph as a player, yet expect pages of reading when you are a DM. Do the math please. I like, and I bet most players will agree, to know how the various races are represented in a campaign when deciding my race and class. Half a page of backstory and possibly half a page or more per race means I am reading several pages of your writing to decide what I am going to run in the campaign.

That is quite a bit more than your demand for nothing more than a paragraph when your a player.

 

[billd91]

Way to fail there with hypocrisy.

You want a paragraph as a player, yet expect pages of reading when you are a DM. Do the math please. I like, and I bet most players will agree, to know how the various races are represented in a campaign when deciding my race and class. Half a page of backstory and possibly half a page or more per race means I am reading several pages of your writing to decide what I am going to run in the campaign.

That is quite a bit more than your demand for nothing more than a paragraph when your a player.

You seriously need to reread what you're responding to there.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

You seriously need to reread what you're responding to there.

No I dont he said he does not want to read more than a paragraph as a player.

Then as a DM he expects you to read more. Sure he gives a paragraph world summary, but he also gives race specific info. Most players will want to read that info to decide what race to play.

Example

You just in bob's homebrew called Eberron. Its finished, you had a blast with your drow elf.

Now you are joining my homebrew called Forgotten Realms. You decide that you loved your drow elf and want to play another and you see they are an option as a character.

Being lazy you dont read the racial info, just the paragraph long general campaign description.

Wow are you going to be surprised and mad when you learn that Eberron Drow and Realms Drow have nothing in common except skin color.

So to play in most campaigns and really enjoy them you have to do the larger amount of reading than the poster stated he wanted to read, especially if I am not a very effective "concise" writer by his standards since he stated he only wants to read crucial background info if its no more than 2-5 pages and well written.

 

[Man in the Funny Hat]

To plumb your potential players interest in your setting at all you need a single sentence or at most a short paragraph: "It's Steampunk meets Star Wars," or, "In a world where demons stalk the streets like wolves in a forest, mortal man must be a very, VERY clever and careful sheep."

If players have agreed to be further tempted it should be ONE page of general description of the sorts of adventures and mood you're anticipating.

Once players agree completely to give it a go, less is more. List the deities, classes, races, PrC's, etc. that they will need to know when making their character creation choices. Don't give them the world's history from the dawn of time - just give them the highlights of what they will need to know to BEGIN playing. If you feel your players have to be deeply indoctrinated into the details of your game world before they can even roll up characters you're asking a LOT of your players. Get them PLAYING. Reserve the extensive world descriptions for when it's needed or otherwise just reveal it gradually - as you would do any standard-fantasy setting.

 

[billd91]

No I dont he said he does not want to read more than a paragraph as a player.

Then as a DM he expects you to read more. Sure he gives a paragraph world summary, but he also gives race specific info. Most players will want to read that info to decide what race to play.

You apparently didn't notice this:

Now, if your campaign intro contains stuff that is immediately useful to me (like, "This is the town/country you start in and important personages there, this is how elves are in this world, this is how dwarves are, this is how arcane magic is") and written in a concise, efficient way, I'm okay with 2-5 pages, maybe even 10... although I will be annoyed if you expect me to have those pages memorized.

For my own campaigns, I typically write a brief introductory section--less than one page--which gives an overview of the setting, followed by a few pages of reference material. I expect everybody to read the intro, and the reference material directly relevant to their PCs (e.g., if you're an elf, you need to read the bit about elves). Everything else is strictly optional, meant to be read as needed during the game. I don't expect anybody to memorize the section on world geography, but if you're going to the Plains of Ashah, you might want to glance over that section and see what it has to say about the Plains.

(emphasis mine)

So what he expects of his players is pretty much exactly what he says he will read if he's the player.

 

[steeldragons]

Working off of a thought that came to me via Smoss' original thread, http://www.enworld.org/forum/genera...t-kind-setting-fluff-do-you-want-see-rpg.html , plus some experience from my work in publishing/layout, plus something I'll be working on myself later this evening...and taking into account the general consensus (not just from this discussion, but the desires of society on a whole/in most cases) that "shorter is better"...

I submit to you that the perfect presentation of both intro material AND general world fluff is...TOP 10s!

People love lists. They tell you what you want to know in an understood order and take next to no time to process.

THEN, if you as the player or you as the DM want to instill more detail on certain players about certain things (races, gods, etc.), then you can get that info/add that in.

So, even though I gave a list of info in my last post...I'mma gonna throw a few potential "Intro style" Top (5 or 10) Lists out there for y'all and see what you think/if this would convey what you need/want.

10 Nearest Settlements and/or Landmarks to your hometown.

5 (or 10 if ya got 'em) Most worshiped deities/Most powerful temples.

5 (or 10) Most powerful nations known in the world.

5 (or 10) Most encountered/common Races.

5 Largest Cities in the World.

10 Most well known (Famous or Infamous) Organizations and Individuals.

10 Most Commonly accepted attitudes of your culture/realm/region. (i.e. Elves are pretty but snooty. Tieflings worship demons. Anyone who worships Datgod is eeeeevilllll. Humans from the Kingdom of Overthere can never be trusted. Our king is a tool. etc.) Not saying the PC must share these views, but these are the attitudes of the place s/he comes from.

Top...say "3"...known conflicts/difficulties in the region/world. Ongoing wars? Marauding halfling cannibals? Lycanthropic plague? Evil demi-god resembling a large headed mouse tryin' to take over the world? C'mon you can come up with 3 things easy.

Other possibilities...
5 Biggest Baddest Evil Guys in history (including the present)
5 Most beloved heroes/common legends (including the present)
5 Most legendary (a.k.a. "powerful") treasures. What they are known (or thought) to do. (Where they might be I'd leave to the players to hunt down/figure out. )

I would say all of this info could easily be placed on a single page or two. Devoting anywhere from a single sentence/line to each.

How would that work for a jumping off point?

--SD

 

[Sunseeker]

When I buy an RP book, I generally sit down and read the whole thing. I bought 4E Essentials Fallen Kingdoms book and read it all in a couple hours afterward.

Personally, I would read as much as possible, partially because I like reading, and partially because I'm a sucker for spoilers.

But, conversely, if it was a requirement to read something, I would probably be unwilling to do so. I'm admittedly sometimes stubborn and really don't care to go back to the "read what you're told, not what you like" days of high-school.

 

[Mallus]

I'm not a big fan of setting handouts. The game is played through talking --mainly, usually, etc.-- and that's how I like to explore a campaign setting, either through play or at the very least through discussions before the start of play.

I'm not reading-averse. It's just my experience the setting on the page frequently doesn't match the setting described during play, and it's the setting that comes alive --hopefully-- during actual play that counts.

Now as an inveterate world-building DM, I create scads of setting material. I just don't subject my players to it in written form, unless they ask, usually more than once. Though, to be fair, there are setting notes posted on our campaign message board (but I didn't put them there!).

I understand the desire to have PC which "fit" into the setting, PC's which seem at home there, that have roots and connections to the wider made-up world. But for me this falls under the category of "engagement" and you can't mandate nor teach player engagement through some sort of required reading list. My experience is it simply doesn't work.

PC's grow to *belong* to their imaginary world through play. I don't believe there's a effective short-cut through that process.

 

[Cerebral Paladin]

It depends on circumstances. For a campaign that I'm excited about, when the scheduling is relatively good? Nigh unlimited for me: 50+ pages would be fine. For a campaign that I'm squeezing in the first session of at a time when I'm totally clobbered by work responsibilities? A page or two, maybe five at the outside, is the limit. I'm willing to read more, but I just won't have the time, and I hope the DM's okay that my character is a little half-baked.

But the bigger issue is: is the reading "enrichment" or "required"? In particular, with the Burning Sky campaign I'm playing in, some of us read the players' material thoroughly. Others skimmed it. I think one of the players didn't read it at all. If the goal is creating a player's guide with the expectation that every player will read it, it has to be short, because the limiting factor is the player in each group who is least willing to engage with it. A page or two is probably the limit if you want 100% of players to read it (and even then, in some groups you won't get 100%). If you'd like to get most players to read it, but it's okay if a few don't (or only read the first page or two), then maybe 10 pages would work. If it's an optional thing that's nice or provides more depth, sky's the limit.