Are You Using Skill Checks and Skill Challenges

When I run games, my players are rolling skill checks all the time. Without telling them as much, they are constantly in recursive skill challenges where successes lend bonuses to other skill checks which add up to minor skill challenges the success or failure of which affect the overall challenge or goal.

But this weekend I saw 4E with a friend and long-time gamer who I hadn't talked with in a long time. His group is really struggling with skill challenges. They want to use them and like them. They've instituted a house rule that x% of their experience each level has to come from skill challenges. But, in his words, "the kick-in-the-door guys keep ending up saying stuff like 'Uh, I impress the lord with my Acrobatics, I guess?'"

So, 2.5 years into 4E and a couple months into the Essentials redirection, how are skill challenges working out for your group?

What's the most successful skill challenge you've run or played in? (Define success for yourselves!) The worst experience you've had?

Has the official support been good enough, have you found good advice elsewhere (link to it!), or are you still struggling?
 

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Skill challenges are dead for me, unless it's some kind of physical challenge.

Other than that I'm faster adjusting decisions based on roleplaying, clever ideas from players and a few hidden checks.
 

We enjoyed the in-combat skill challenge in a Dungeon adventure which involved trying to board up a ruined temple from the inside to keep out hordes of undead trying to break in, while fighting off the occasional clumps of undead that made it inside.
 


Hmmm. In the early days we really gave skill challenges a decent go, but they felt too "artifical" to me. Tried some variations and house rules, but no matter what it just didnt quite fit. Its like trying to put icing on the cake (of the game experience) but the problem was that the game isnt always cake...

Sometimes skill challenges just ill fit the situation and feel like an imposed methodology rather than a clever, quantifiable approach to challenge.

All I do now days is roleplay and get skill rolls at crucial points to see how it works out for them. I have some extra rules around this approach (which I wont go into), but the whole "6 successes before 3 failures" bit, well, thats in the preverbial trashcan for our group.
 

Stalker0's Obsideon system {link in sig below} has been the life-breath for me in skill challenges.

I think the three keys to 'done well' are:

- Get the players out of the mode of the "skill challenge = roll best skill" mode of thinking and into the "what can my character do" mode

- encourage the story telling aspect over the dice rolling aspect.

- They have to matter. Sometimes its better to gloss over the scene, or use a complex skill check rather than use a skill challenge. Ideally the plot line shifts because of the challenge. A skill challenge should have as much prep work as an encounter with the BBEG.

Stalker0's system helps in that the DCs are set so that a moderate skill will succeed, then couple that with the ruling of "tell me what your PC does and I will determine the skill to use, and maybe give you a bonus to the roll"


I have had a player successfully use his skill at a bow in a diplomatic situation, showing his expertise and the courage {or stupidity} of his fellow partner {whom he ended up critically hitting}. Since the display was to some barbaric types, it worked.
My group still isn't fully immersed, but we are getting there.
 

Skill checks I use all day long, as needed.

I also use skill challenges, but not necessarily in the skill challenge framework as presented. I make up whatever structure I feel is appropriate for a given situation, and go with it (I'm a believer this is how they were meant to be used anyway). But yes, sometimes they show up on their own, sometimes they show up in combat, and I use all shades of grey for degrees of success and failure, with some predetermined and some on the fly results.

I can make some pretty strict rulings in skill challenges, such as inaction producing failures, and using a sort of time crunch to make sure as many people as possible are contributing. I also tend to fit in a lot of easy checks into a skill challenge, so it's not like anyone is handicapped for having a character with low skills, they just contribute with the easier tasks.

Paraphrasing Mearls's words, just like combat, both the DM and the players need to "want" a skill challenge to happen, for it to be successful. If the players aren't interested, the DM ends up in an awkward situation where he is just asking players for an exercise in rolling dice.
 

Skill checks as the games demands.

I use skill challenges too, though I never take the time to write them up formally the way that they're written-up in DMG2. Mostly for the same reasons I don't write-up encounters in the same format presented Kobold Hall.
 

Here's an example of the sort of Skill Challenge I run with my group all the time - This is pretty much exactly how it's written up and handed to the Players (this one was used during a modified WoTC adventure).

It may not suit everyone, but my group loves them and we use them often -

COMMANDEERING THE HELM SKILL CHALLENGE
(XP: 2000)

You have finally located the Helm of the Blade of Al’veydra – the Planar Ship Connor Reyar used to navigate the Astral Plane! But, you’ve discovered that it is already operational (Zirithian “started it” to open the portal to Tytherion), and perhaps worse, you’ve realized that in order to make the most of the Helm, it requires a unique and distasteful fuel: living souls!-THE CHALLENGE-

It is important to know that from a game mechanics standpoint, the Helm functions pretty much as described in the Manual of the Planes – in conjunction with a vessel that has a Navigation focus, it acts as a locus for a Plane Shift ritual that will move the vessel and its occupants to any plane already visited by the “navigator” (as per the ritual). Although the ritual can move the ship to an unfamiliar location, the results can be random at best.

However, there are two unique aspects to Connor Reyar’s Helm: One, with either sufficient Anarch (a secondary fuel source) or living “soul” energy, the vessel can travel to the Elemental Chaos. Second, it appears able to travel through time, at least in some fashion, as well (more research can unlock this).

Prior to your arrival, Zirithian clumsily used the Helm to punch a hole to the plane of Tytherion: he’s been fueling the Helm with Drow in Cozule (thus, all the Undead Drow running around), but since the Helm was used while “unseated” (i.e., not in a vessel with a Navigation focus), it has created the random side effect of the Planar breaches, or slips, that currently roil through Cozule.

Now that you’ve found it, you can wrest control of the Helm from Laareen/Zirithian, and because of the unique nature of its current operation (at the moment, the Helm actually occupies a “space” between both the Prima Material Plane and Tytherion), you can refocus it toward a place anyone in Fellbane is familiar with – Al’veydra.

If you succeed at the Skill Challenge, all of Fellbane and the Helm will transport fully onto the Prime Material Plane (subject to the Plane Shift Ritual; i.e., an Arcana check will determine how close you get to your intended destination), closing the door to Tytherion behind you as you go!

Commandeering the Helm” is a Complexity 3 Skill Challenge (8 Successes before 3 Failures), that can be accomplished as outlined below: As battle rages around you, a PC must sit in the Helm and attempt to control it and direct it. Getting in the Helm is a Minor Action, staying there throughout the battle is a whole other matter…!

The Zirithian Counter
Also, at the start of the encounter the Zirithian Counter is set to 4: That is the number of rounds before Zirithian (and perhaps someone else?) comes through the Portal to defend Laareen and the interests of Dal-Morvrey. Every Primary Skill check moves the counter +1 round, any failure moves it -2 rounds.

The Primary Check

The Primary Skill check is Arcana (DC: 25, Standard Action). All checks can be accomplished by the same PC.

Secondary skills are: Religion (DC: 20, Standard Action; You understand that the Helm is fueled with the necromantic energy of Souls. Limited to 2x. The first success unlocks the Soul Engine additional action; the second success unlocks the To Live & Die in Cozule additional action. Note: You can use up both Religion secondary checks for the same Primary check!), Arcana (DC: 20, Standard Action: You understand that the Helm can possibly be “retuned”, albeit briefly, for Radiant energy. Limited to 1x. This success unlocks the Heaven and Hell additional action), History (DC: 15; Standard Action; You know the unique history of the Helm, making it easier to comprehend and exploit. Limited to 2x). A successful Religion, Arcana, or History secondary check adds +1 to the Primary check, plus the additional consequences listed above, if any.

All Secondary checks must be conducted adjacent to the Helm.

Additional actions: There are other ways to affect the Primary Arcana checks.

Soul Engine: Every power with the Necromantic keyword expended into the Helm adds to the Primary check. An At-Will adds +1 to the Primary check, an Encounter adds +3 to the Primary check, and a Daily adds +5 to the Primary check.
To Live & Die in Cozule: Up to two (2) PCs adjacent to the Helm can voluntarily subject themselves to five (5) ongoing damage to add +1 to the Primary check. If they are not adjacent to the Helm at the start of the turn when the Primary Check is made, they do not take the damage and do not get the bonus. Any living creature killed adjacent to the Helm adds +5 to the Primary check, and negates the possibility of a critical failure. If a PC voluntarily sacrifices himself to the Helm, you gain two complete Successes toward the challenge (and the PC returns as a Revenant, as per that Class write-up).
Heaven and Hell: A successful Arcana Secondary check has revealed that the Helm can be “retuned”. This takes two (2) Rounds, during which time no Primary checks can be made (although the Zirithian Counter continues to move), and during each of those two (2) Rounds a Daily power with the Radiant keyword must be expended into the Helm. At the end of this process, the Soul Engine additional action is altered to the following: Every power with the Radiant keyword expended into the Helm adds to the Primary check. An At-Will adds +1 to the Primary check, an Encounter adds +2 to the Primary check, and a Daily adds +4 to the Primary check. The To Live & Die in Cozule additional action is also altered to the following: Every living creature adjacent to the Helm who “donates” a Healing Surge (as a minor action) adds +1 to the Primary check. Note that retuning the Helm allows the Primary Arcana check to be substituted with a Religion check (DC 21, Standard Action). However, if there is any Round during which no Radiant energy is “poured” into the Helm, it reverts back to its Necromantic focus.

Taking Damage

Whoever sits in the Helm trying to control it will probably be the target of numerous attacks. Sitting in the Helm grants Combat Advantage, and further, any damage taken by the Navigator prior to the Primary check for that Round adds a cumulative -1 penalty to the Primary check…

* * * *
Success: Every two successful Primary skill checks adds a +1 cumulative bonus to the Skill Challenge and moves the Zirithian Counter as noted above. Every failed Primary skill check garners a -1 cumulative penalty to the Skill Challenge and moves the Zirithian Counter as noted above. If you’re successful at the challenge, the Helm and anyone you designate Planar shifts to the place you’ve directed (subject to the Plane Shift ritual), and the doorway to Tytherion closes!

Failure: If you fail this challenge, the Helm shuts down completely for an undetermined time…and you will probably be neck deep in combat…
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WHAT ABOUT “AID ANOTHER”?

You can do one Aid Another attempt (DC: 10 plus half level, Standard Action) per Primary check. The PC attempting the Aid Another must be adjacent to the Helm.

ADDENDUM – THE DROW COUNTER

Depending on how you’ve dealt with Zaknoril at the time the Skill Challenge begins, you may be facing a Drow Counter as well (this adds +750 XP to the Challenge). It will start at six (6) - the number of Rounds you have before Matron Urlvrain’s forces make a run at Laareen. This number inexorably counts down -1 each Round of the Skill Challenge, and is only affected if you fail one of the Primary Checks by five (5) or more. If you do, it goes down -2 for that Round…

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Again - it might not be for everyone, but I use this template over and over. Players can always suggest additional Primary and Secondary skills, and I always provide the chance for the Players to use Magic Items and Powers to help them through the challenge...
 

Players in my games are making skill checks constantly. Are there really games where they don't!??

Occasionally the number of skill checks they make almost morphs into an impromptu skill challenge.

I've also run 'formal' skill challenges of various types, and some have been tons of fun (the ones that haven't, well, at least they're over quick). So it's a mechanic I'm definitely interested in continuing to incorporate, although I'm definitely still learning how to use it.

One interesting thing I've found: skill challenges can get more fun when the players start failing them.
 

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