D&D (2024) Should Bounded Accuracy apply to skill checks? Thoughts on an old Alexandrian article

[UngeheuerLich]

Expertise and reliable talent are what makes the rogue stand out. They never have trouble opening complex locks easily after level 7. As the fighter has no problems standing tall against big threatening enemies.

Shameless self quote...

I forgot to mention: Level 7 is where full spellcasters get their level 4 spells. The highest a 1/3 caster will get (at level 17).

At this level a wizard casts polymorph. Or dimension door. Easy ways to get through doors or overcome any obstacle. So why shouldn't the rogue be able to do so at this level?

 

[James Gasik]

Shameless self quote...

I forgot to mention: Level 7 is where full spellcasters get their level 4 spells. The highest a 1/3 caster will get (at level 17).

At this level a wizard casts polymorph. Or dimension door. Easy ways to get through doors or overcome any obstacle. So why shouldn't the rogue be able to do so at this level?

So basically, by level 7, skill checks really shouldn't matter anymore because players have ways to make them moot?

I guess I don't have a problem with that, though I wish that was spelled out somewhere. It feels odd to have a skill system tacked on that's meant to obsolete itself though.

 

[CreamCloud0]

So basically, by level 7, skill checks really shouldn't matter anymore because players have ways to make them moot?

I guess I don't have a problem with that, though I wish that was spelled out somewhere. It feels odd to have a skill system tacked on that's meant to obsolete itself though.

i would personally consider it more like 'by level 7 all classes should have their way to be reliably passing the skill checks of their chosen specialisation' casters would have their spells, martials would have expertise and reliable talent(on limited skills).

 

[ezo]

IMO it is sad that this happens around 7th level (or really happens at all), but I would prefer personally having it at least wait until 11th or higher. Like many people I prefer playing in tier 1 and 2 because it is more "mundane" (?) than the uber-power you start getting with 11th and higher levels.

The current E12 design we have is based on the idea that, while more powerful things exist, the PCs basically reach their pinnacle at 12th level. IMO this is the prime "maximum level" for 5E. You are powerful enough to handle just about anything, but things in the CR 18+ range can still be very hard to defeat without numbers, superior tactics, etc.

 

[tetrasodium]

i would personally consider it more like 'by level 7 all classes should have their way to be reliably passing the skill checks of their chosen specialisation' casters would have their spells, martials would have expertise and reliable talent(on limited skills).

That cuts both ways though. Sometimes those skills checks are making sure someone else can't "reliably pass [the result of their efforts]" then it's a problem when the resulting skill system's intent collapses into paradox.

 

[CreamCloud0]

That cuts both ways though. Sometimes those skills checks are making sure someone else can't "reliably pass [the result of their efforts]" then it's a problem when the resulting skill system's intent collapses into paradox.

the increasing bonus of a specialised class shouldn't be increasing the target bar of the checks. and if you wanted to be good at the checks and you didn't specialise for it well that's your fault so don't complain that the checks are too hard for your no proficiency, +3 stat bonus character

 

[tetrasodium]

the increasing bonus of a specialised class shouldn't be increasing the target bar of the checks. and if you wanted to be good at the checks and you didn't specialise for it well that's your fault so don't complain that the checks are too hard for your no proficiency, +3 stat bonus character

I don't think that has anything to do with my post & the worldbuilding implications of a skill system that self obsoletes less than halfway through the power curve

 

[CreamCloud0]

I don't think that has anything to do with my post & the worldbuilding implications of a skill system that self obsoletes less than halfway through the power curve

i'm really not seeing how that's happening.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

So basically, by level 7, skill checks really shouldn't matter anymore because players have ways to make them moot?

At least in some cases. Problem is that nerfing the rogue means you need to nerf spells. And playtest showed that player hate the idea of reducing power levels...

I guess I don't have a problem with that, though I wish that was spelled out somewhere.

Hmm. The rogue ability is called reliable talent. I guess this is spelling it out quite well.

It feels odd to have a skill system tacked on that's meant to obsolete itself though.

See above. 5.14 had proficiency dice. I guess instead of reliable talent or expertise, proficiency dice could be used (I think LevelUp has something like that).

 

[James Gasik]

At least in some cases. Problem is that nerfing the rogue means you need to nerf spells. And playtest showed that player hate the idea of reducing power levels...


Hmm. The rogue ability is called reliable talent. I guess this is spelling it out quite well.

See above. 5.14 had proficiency dice. I guess instead of reliable talent or expertise, proficiency dice could be used (I think LevelUp has something like that).

Having an ability on one class called "Reliable" isn't quite what I meant.

I meant maybe have somewhere in the DMG a section talking about how ability checks will eventually cease to matter as players get abilities to either circumvent them or get ways to make the chances of failure vanishingly small.