Monsters as pc

[Eman Resu]

player in a gestalt campaign wants to play a Doppelganger and as an 8th level class. Oh boy here we go, I heard about gestalt nightmares and Im pulling up the blankets!

First problem being discussed, what exactly can she change into. Is it only humanoid? including monstrous humanoid? The change shape explanation I found online didnt say anything about what happens to clothes, armor belongings etc. Other players are saying its not the same as the spell Alter Self.

She wants to know if she can increase her physical beauty, there for raising her cha at will? WHAT?

She wants to find a complete list of "things" she may change into, and so far it looks like; shes going to burrow, like a, like a, well Im sure she going to burrow! Fly as a Raptorian, not a great example, but the first to memory, and hide like a skulk! Have the natural AC of the Troglodite(spelling?)

The other players have brought it to my attention, that she can at will be the best at stealth, movement, AC for fighting, whine wine whine wine they said more but Im sure you can fill it all in, dont forget the colorful language!

So I would like to falsly appear knowledgable, can you help me with concerning detials?

many a thanks

Eman Resu

 

[frankthedm]

Errata has heavily affected some of these critter abilities.

Change Shape

A creature with this special quality has the ability to assume the appearance of a specific creature or type of creature (usually a humanoid), but retains most of its own physical qualities. A true seeing spell or ability reveals the creature’s natural form. A creature using change shape reverts to its natural form when killed, but separated body parts retain their shape. A creature cannot use change shape to take the form of a creature with a template. Changing shape results in the following changes to the creature:

* The creature retains the type and subtype of its original form. It gains the size of its new form.
* The creature loses the natural weapons and movement modes of its original form, as well as any extraordinary special attacks of its original form not derived from class levels (such as the barbarian’s rage class feature).
* The creature gains the natural weapons, movement modes, and extraordinary special attacks of its new form.
* The creature retains all other special attacks and qualities of its original form, except for breath weapons and gaze attacks.
* The creature retains the ability scores of its original form.
* Except as described elsewhere, the creature retains all other game statistics of its original form, including (but not necessarily limited to) HD, hit points, skill ranks, feats, base attack bonus, and base save bonuses.
* The creature retains any spellcasting ability it had in its original form, although it must be able to speak intelligibly to cast spells with verbal components and it must have humanlike hands to cast spells with somatic components.
* The creature is effectively camouflaged as a creature of its new form, and gains a +10 bonus on Disguise checks if it uses this ability to create a disguise.
* Any gear worn or carried by the creature that can’t be worn or carried in its new form instead falls to the ground in its space. If the creature changes size, any gear it wears or carries that can be worn or carried in its new form changes size to match the new size. (Nonhumanoid-shaped creatures can’t wear armor designed for humanoid-shaped creatures, and viceversa.) Gear returns to normal size if dropped.

She wants to know if she can increase her physical beauty, there for raising her cha at will? WHAT?

Nope. Now I'd be generous with circumstance bonuses a doppelganger could get to charisma tests for NPC interactions, but no stat boosts.

 

[Eman Resu]

thanks for the response. Is she limited to humanoid or monstrous humanoid subtypes?
What about weight gain or lose? Does she gian/loose weight between lets say a Orc and a Halfling or is the Orc going to be fluffy whilst the Halfling extremly dense?

And heres some of the other questions they/were coming up with. What if she changes form into a guard with a two handed claymore. #1 is her claymore made of metal or flesh and bone? Does she cause 2d6 damage with it? What happens to the stuff she normally carries? does it morph/change for as well? If it doesnt her disguise is going to be problematic if it does then this is a major magical ability not just some supernatural/extraordinary ability...what to stop her then from making her weapon anything she wants?

please bare with me this just a few of the questions I have heard. We have yet to ask DM about it yet, DM is probably less knowledgable than 1/2 the players.

 

[Theo R Cwithin]

From the SRD entry for Doppelganger:

Change Shape (Su) A doppelganger can assume the shape of any Small or Medium humanoid. In humanoid form, the doppelganger loses its natural attacks. A doppelganger can remain in its humanoid form until it chooses to assume a new one. A change in form cannot be dispelled, but a doppelganger reverts to its natural form when killed. A true seeing spell or ability reveals its natural form.

So on to your questions:

thanks for the response. Is she limited to humanoid or monstrous humanoid subtypes?

Medium or Small Humanoids only, not Monstrous Humanoids.

What about weight gain or lose? Does she gian/loose weight between lets say a Orc and a Halfling or is the Orc going to be fluffy whilst the Halfling extremly dense?

Just assume he weight doesn't change, though her height and girth can, within the limits of the small & medium humanoid. I wouldn't worry about her density, as that doesn't have any mechanical effect in the game.

And heres some of the other questions they/were coming up with. What if she changes form into a guard with a two handed claymore. #1 is her claymore made of metal or flesh and bone? Does she cause 2d6 damage with it? What happens to the stuff she normally carries? does it morph/change for as well?

As is mentioned in what Frank quoted, equipment isn't part of the change shape ability. She's stuck with what she's carrying, though it changes size if necessary. If the new form can't use a piece of equipment, it falls off. So she can change into a guard, but she can't create a claymore from her body.

If it doesnt her disguise is going to be problematic if it does then this is a major magical ability not just some supernatural/extraordinary ability...what to stop her then from making her weapon anything she wants?

Yup, her ability lets her change her body shape, but she has to provide the appropriate equipment, clothing, and so on (or use illusion magic). Like you say, it would be too powerful otherwise.

Good gaming!

 

[Bendraesar]

Yup, her ability lets her change her body shape, but she has to provide the appropriate equipment, clothing, and so on (or use illusion magic). Like you say, it would be too powerful otherwise.

Not clothing. Doppelgangers behave very much like Mystique from X-men when it comes to their Shapechanging.

 

[Dandu]

Now, if you want to turn your hands into axes, you might want to get your Unarmed Strikes enchanted with the Morphing property.

 

[Theo R Cwithin]

Not clothing. Doppelgangers behave very much like Mystique from X-men when it comes to their Shapechanging.

You may be right. The ability description refers to "gear worn or carried", so I guess it depends if clothing is considered to be gear or not. Personally, I tend to think of clothing (and armor) as "worn gear" and so it only changes size to fit the new form, but not color, style, texture, etc.

But honestly, I doubt it's overpowered in most campaigns to include the appearance of clothing in the change shape ability. I don't know if there's something that clarifies this in RAW?

DM's call, I suppose.

 

[Bendraesar]

You may be right. The ability description refers to "gear worn or carried", so I guess it depends if clothing is considered to be gear or not. Personally, I tend to think of clothing (and armor) as "worn gear" and so it only changes size to fit the new form, but not color, style, texture, etc.

But honestly, I doubt it's overpowered in most campaigns to include the appearance of clothing in the change shape ability. I don't know if there's something that clarifies this in RAW?

DM's call, I suppose.

There is all of the art that concerning Doppelgangers and Changelings. >.>

 

[Eman Resu]

I hope you guys see the ambiguity here, its not, as is often the case, cut & dry/black or white. I cant find any info on what happens to clothes...and as such a Dop. will enter a town and have to obtian the clothing of each she intends to mimic?

I think the conversation so far is leading to forcing this pc to sacrifice a feat to mimic
held carried items or just change the appearance of items held / carried.

 

[Eman Resu]

ok so in from DM, he has asked her to make a list of races she can change into so that he may approve or dis- each. OK so this seems fair...problem is with chrystal keep down non of us have books to access, damn you WoTC! Go push you 4E crack on someone else! We will stick to the herb of 3.5 thankyou........