Who's your favorite Villain?

[Deset Gled]

I don't quite agree with the initial point - this is fantasy, not historical fiction, not reality - so for the most part I assume that all we are shown is true. If we are to assume otherwise it all becomes somewhat pointless - you might as well write a new movie.

The unreliable narrator is a common element in fiction.

From what we are shown, the basis for the assertion that Palpatine is a villain is sound. Neutral Evil, I would suggest.

But even were I to agree with you, I certainly find myself hard pressed to find a Neutral Good reason for the destruction of Alderaan.

...

Every indication in Ep IV is that the Alderaan is peaceful (and not at war with the Empire) and the Empire did not hesitate to destroy it, ostensibly as a 'test' for the Death Star's capabilities.

What are we actually shown about Alderaan? We are shown that the highest official of the Alderaan government (Bail Organa was the First Chairman and Viceroy of Alderaan) is a supporter of the largest known terrorist organization in the Empire. We are shown that another member of the government (Leia was a Senator for Alderaan) was an active member in the same terrorist group. We are shown that officers on simple diplomatic ships from Alderaan are armed, trained, and willing to kill Imperial soldiers rather than submit to a simple and legal search of a ship.

If we expand to the radio play and novel version of ANH, we are also shown that the Alderaanian government assassinated an Imperial official who started to suspect the Viceroy of being Rebel, and that the murder was covered up as a "hunting accident". We are also shown in RotJ that the same ship used by Princess Leia in ANH makes up a significant percentage of the Rebel fleet, implying that Alderaan was supplying a terrorist group with warships.

What we are not shown is any evidence of Alderaan's "peaceful" nature. Literally every Alderaanian we see is member of a terrorist group, and Bail Organa is the only one we see who isn't killing Imperial troops. The only evidence we have that Alderaan is "good" in any way is Princess Leia telling us that. And I for one don't trust a traitorous senator who feels no guilt about using lethal force against attackers that she knows are using non-lethal weapons.

Every indication in Ep IV is that the Alderaan is a violent terrorist planet that the Empire was forced to destroy for the good of the galaxy.

 

[Deset Gled]

As for SW, Vader needlessly killed 'younglings,' (failing) commanding naval officers, and slaves in his harem.

Vader (note: not Palpatine) killed the next generation of warriors trained by a violent and oppressive religious sect that was manipulating the government for their own purposes. True, they were young, but they had been taken from their parents and brainwashed from the earliest age possible. The fact that they were likely irredeemable was the direct fault of the Jedi, not Palpatine. Vader may have killed some naval officers, but in every case there is evidence that they were traitorous or criminally incompetent. I don't know when Vader had a harem, and I also don't know how it's relevant to Palpatine.

Palpaptine's action led to many gungans dying.

Palpatine was responsible for engineering a war between the robot army of the Trade Federation and the clone army of the Republic. The only other factions (Gungans, Wookies, etc) were brought into the war by... the Jedi. Palpatine made every effort possible to pull off his coup with minimal casualties to citizens of the Republic. Meanwhile, the two-faced Jedi claim that they "aren't soldiers" but don't hesitate encourage any ally to lay down their lives.

He was responsible for unprovoked planetary genocide.

You know who was responsible for unprovoked planetary genocide? The Rebel Alliance. Seriously.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Kefka Pallazzo.

He's a dude who was subject to horrible science experiments designed to turn him into a super soldier. The experiments fractured his mind, leaving him impulsive and insane, but certainly powerful.

His boss is the Evil Emperor who wants to Rule the World. At about 2/3rds of the way into the story, the Evil Emperor actually defeats the heroes and is about to Rule The World. He possesses the Ultimate Weapon that will Blow Up Everything, and the heroes have no chance to seize it from him.

Then Kefka stabs him, throws him off the floating island, grabs the Ultimate Weapon, and proceeds to Blow Up The World, murdering billions in an instant.

For the next 1/3rd of the story, he proceeds to blast helpless mewling townsfolk from atop an impenetrable tower assembled from the ruins of all they once held dear. He does this at a leisurely pace.

When the heroes recover to confront him, he tells them his motives.

He says, "I will create a monument to non-existence!"

...of course, this is foreshadowed a bit earlier, when he poisons the water supply of a town against the orders of his superiors, just because "Nothing beats the sweet music of hundreds of voices screaming in unison!"

Here is a villain who wants to command nothing, wants to rule nothing, wants to embrace nihilism to the nth degree. He's insanely powerful, and also insane.

He also succeeded in destroying the world.

How many villains can say that?

PS:
The whole "Palpatine As A Good Guy" angle is hilarious, and shows how thin the line dividing "terrorist" from "freedom fighter" really is. Though it's something of an Alignment Debate. According to the movies, he's Evil, and since it is a work of fiction, we don't really need to give the other side any real consideration (but it's certainly a fun thought exercise).

 

[Dioltach]

I'd like to mention Crowley, from Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman's Good Omens. An excellent villain, and no doubt the coolest one!

 

[Umbran]

You know who was responsible for unprovoked planetary genocide? The Rebel Alliance. Seriously.

Because if it is provoked, that makes it okay?

Nice devil's advocate sophistry, but that whole "magical power through embracing anger and hatred, encouraging others to do so to gain his own ends" the viewer sees kinda puts a ding in it, if you step away from the press releases

 

[Joshua Randall]

Yeah, the attempts to pain Palpatine as the good guy, while amusing, are ultimately peurile.

= = =

Favorite D&D villains:

* Acererak. Objectively, not a very good villain because he doesn't do anything, just sits in his tomb collecting souls. He also never takes the initiative to confront the PCs directly. But man, has he got style. And for pure volume of TPKs, he can't be beat.

* The Lord-High Exultant from 2e's Return to the Tomb of Horrors. He's evil, he's immortal, and -- he lies and he cheats! If the PCs play by the rules (like good little heroes) when facing him, they're screwed.

* Eli Tomorast from Mordenkainen's Fantastic Adventure and the later 3e / Dungeon magazine Maure Castle adventures. In MFA, Eli is a bit of a cypher personality-wise but he's got those sweet demon hands, plus he lives in the coolest dungeon ever. (Yes, cooler than the Tomb of Horrors.) In the Maure Castle adventures, Eli picks up a personality and competing motives (revenge against Mordenkainen? or research the castle?). Plus he's got a henchwoman... er, henchdog?... (Yug-Anark the gnoll priestess) willing to bring him back after he's destroyed. Raise dead -- it's not just for PCs any more!

* From an obscure series of D&D gamebooks (Sceptre of Power / The Sorcerer's Crown / Clash of the Sorcerers), Arno the drow wizard. He was a drow back when drow were still evil and cool, not good/emo and lame. He was extremely competent, in contrast to the "hero" protagonist of the books (i.e., you, the reader) who was basically a bumbling idiot. And, Arno comes to a deliciously bad end, bitten in half by The Tarrasque!

[And oh yes, my friends, I still have those gamesbooks. The bookmarks (effectively, character sheets) are beat to heck, but intact.]

 

[El Mahdi]

Yeah, the attempts to pain Palpatine as the good guy, while amusing, are ultimately peurile...

Duh...we all participate in a hobby based upon playing "let's pretend". Hell, peurile describes about 90% of everything we discuss on these forums... Personally, I'm cool with that.

...and any attempts "to pain Palpatine" were probably part of a Jedi plot.

 

[GhostBear]

If we could reach into the real world for a bit, someone like Bernie Madoff could make a fantastic villain. This is a person who out of sheer greed stole an incredible amount of money from a LOT of people.

How about what George Soros did in 1992 to the Pound Sterling. One man affecting the currency of a whole country.

Take this to a grander scale and you could have a villain that architects the economic collapse of an entire nation, making it much easier for a neighbor to control it. Depending on your group, this could be a very interesting villain especially if he's doing everything legally. If not your group's style, it could make for a great backdrop for a campaign.

The great thing about these kinds of villains is that they never have to brandish a sword or a gun. There's many ways to hurt people and I find that fantasy games tend to focus on "I'm an evil dude, so I'm going to stab some people, take someone's daughter, kick a puppy and insult your gradmother." It's easy for your party to decide to kill a murderer, but what about someone who hasn't done any physical harm?

Edit:

Also consider someone like Julian Assange, the public face of WikiLeaks. His villain status depends on your point of view: to some he is a terrible person, but to others, he is a true hero. There's a host of interesting angles you could take on this guy and others like him, and quite easy to drop into any game setting.

 

[Momeeche]

Kinda looks like Lady Gaga.

By the way, I want to add Lady Gaga as a villain.

 

[El Mahdi]

...By the way, I want to add Lady Gaga as a villain.

Oh Yeah! Having your BBEG wear a meat-dress would definitely send the PC's a message.