Stonefang Pass help

[SparqMan]

We are in the midst of running HS1: The Orcs of Stonefang pass. My players have managed to get into some trouble and I didn't do a great job of getting them out.

They had just successfully defended the Gatehouse and claimed the Grasping Hand. They entered the side hallway to move towards the Pit of Doom and decided the scare the three orcs, thus warning the Ogre, Orc Archers and Troll Shaman in the Pit room.

Upon arrival, they charged straight into combat and with a few unfortunate rolls (and fortunate for the monsters), drew into a quick TPK. I gave them a quick out by continuing the earthquake and assuming that the Troll Shaman wanted to try sacrificing them (or something).

An easy escape from some distracted Orc Archers on guard using the Grasping Hand to dominate their guard...and they decided to run straight into the next room rather than back the way they came. They even got to hear the dwarf warning of an ambush...but pressed on.

Fortunately it was a good stopping point. In retrospect, I should have stopped it when they all went down to better plan.

So now, what to do?

1) I can nerf the next room's encounter to just a couple of minions, assume Duggin isn't part of the protection ritual, and let him help while the protection ritual is shifted to block the doors. Then they can rest a bit, learn of Stonefang, and go fight the encounter from which they fled along with Duggin.

2) Perhaps all of the animal themed Severed Eyes leaders are rivals, hoping to claim credit before Gruumsh for the conquest of the pass. The Troll Shaman might coerce them into acting as his vanguard in an assault against the next Orc leader at the Citadel. I'm frankly worried that they will wind up dead again with this scenario.

3) Have Stonefang partially emerge off camera, all mighty roaring, and sweep off the Ogre/Troll Shaman encounter...then fall back into his hole to continue rebuilding his strength. They can then rest, and fight the real encounter in the next room.

Other ideas? Help!

 

[SoulsFury]

Allow them to join in on the protection ritual and heal themselves.

 

[SparqMan]

Allow them to join in on the protection ritual and heal themselves.

That's a good idea. But now they'll have TWO encounters' worth of enemies, which would be too much for them even at full strength.

Do I just scrub most of the second encounter? Guess there's nothing really special about that one anyhow. The more important part is talking to the Shadowed Chain dwarves afterward anyhow.

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

You could always just have them die. It's a good consequence for a poorly executed plan.

You could to the 'captured, again' thing, and then have them make new characters to go bust in and rescue the captured ones, if the captured characters are that important.

 

[Unwise]

I am not familiar with the scenario, but if they got their butts kicked once, got saved, then got a warning not to continue, then did anyway, I would be sorely tempted to let the chips fall where they may.

One of the faults of D&D module design is that you are often encouraged to play up the immenence of a threat, but the game mechanics and encounters penalise players for rushing ahead. Is there some 'ticking bomb' in this scenario that the players are feeling rushed towards? If so, you should not penalise them for rushing ahead without healing, after all, they are merely being in character and not meta-gaming.

As an example, in Keep on the Shadowfell, the PCs knew that Kalarel was performing a ritual to summon Lord Orcus. They had no real way of knowing how far he was from completing it. As such, it made little sense for them to take a 5-10 minute break before charging in to stop him. They begun the combat with the majority of them bloodied. (As a GM I wanted them to rest, so that the next encounter would be balanced, but there was no way to encourage that without it feeling trite or breaking the 4th wall) I toned down the encounter, reflecting the fact that the enemies were taken off guard by the rushing advance of the PCs. Some of the enemies had not been summoned yet, or would arrive late.

That being said, unless you feel you have done too good a job at rushing them, I say let the chips fall where they may. Remember, you have years of gaming left, being soft on them will only encourage more of this silliness in future games.

 

[SparqMan]

I am not familiar with the scenario, but if they got their butts kicked once, got saved, then got a warning not to continue, then did anyway, I would be sorely tempted to let the chips fall where they may. ...

That being said, unless you feel you have done too good a job at rushing them, I say let the chips fall where they may. Remember, you have years of gaming left, being soft on them will only encourage more of this silliness in future games.

You may be right. They've dealt with character death already once in this campaign and most of this happened as a result of an Instigator looking to do his thing, but not meaning to cause this much trouble.

At this point, a TPK feels like it would hurt the campaign more than not. They could make new characters and pick up the plot on another related "front", but story-wise it would kill any momentum we've built. This current adventure spawned off a core quest, but isn't particularly relevant the main action. It wouldn't feel like a satisfying point of sacrifice.

One of the faults of D&D module design is that you are often encouraged to play up the immenence of a threat, but the game mechanics and encounters penalise players for rushing ahead. Is there some 'ticking bomb' in this scenario that the players are feeling rushed towards? If so, you should not penalise them for rushing ahead without healing, after all, they are merely being in character and not meta-gaming.

This is very true. There is an immenent threat (a massive earth titan breaking its bond), but they're one encounter away from finding out about that ticking timebomb. So they were rushing ahead with good intentions, but not at my behest. They'd already taken a nice nap along the way.

 

[SoulsFury]

I have been DMing for about 12 or so years. I think I've been playing for 14. I have NEVER even considered letting a TPK happen. Why would I destroy all my players fun? The TPK that DMs seem to glorify (especially sometimes on this site) is sad to me.

If you encounter a TPK, you (or your players) did one of the following things:
A. You don't know your players well enough. If you know they jump head long into combat, why would you design something to destroy their fun completely? It is just a game, and if you don't have anyone to play it with, well your gonna sit at home by yourself playing WoW or Black Ops all day.
B. You made an encounter that was to hard that your players refuse to run from.
C. Your players acted foolishly and you now run the risk of losing your gaming group if they are not comfortable with a TPK. As a note, I've never been a part of a group that would accept a TPK and come back to that DM.

I still suggest using the protection circle. I have run this module and I have never used any module as written. If you feel your PCs will encounter a TPK if you run it as written, then change it. IRC, I had to weaken this part of the adventure as well because A) I only had 3 PCs, and B) it didn't make since for the back group of monsters to be there without knowing the PCs are coming.

If you don't want to edit the encounters, maybe allow them to cast a few area spells before the sanctuary from the dwarves wears off.

 

[mattcolville]

You could always just have them die. It's a good consequence for a poorly executed plan.

At the very least the players need to understand that death is not only possible, but likely.

If you can establish that, then you should probably give them a chance to escape...but only a chance.

Sometimes the TPK is the ending and if you cheat the players of that, they'll be happy their characters are alive, but they will feel the hand of the DM warping reality to keep them alive and that will harm their belief in the secondary world.

 

[SparqMan]

I still suggest using the protection circle. I have run this module and I have never used any module as written. If you feel your PCs will encounter a TPK if you run it as written, then change it. IRC, I had to weaken this part of the adventure as well because A) I only had 3 PCs, and B) it didn't make since for the back group of monsters to be there without knowing the PCs are coming.

This is currently my plan. It's a good suggestion.

I also only have three PCs, but thought I had sufficiently cooled off the encounter threat level. The Orc Archers are way too good though. If you still have your notes for a 3 PC adjustment I'd love to take a look.

The next twist: the PCs are out of Healing Surges and they'll need at least a couple per PC + a full boost to max health to make it unless the scenario is totally thinned. Getting a boost for nothing seems too cheap though. I considered having them sacrificing magic items inside the circle, but that will yield 30 minutes of character sheet changing.

What other "tax" can I put in place? It can of course be a story-based one rather than a financial or item based one.

 

[Trebor62]

You could introduce a dwarven cleric as a spirit. He could have died either in the original fight with the earth titan in tha past or with the orcs. He could then heal and restore the PC's and tell them its all up to them to stop the titans remergance. Heck you could even have him fight along side the PC's as a companian character, maybe he is trapped until he atones for his failings with the orcs or the titan in life and is bound as a spirit until things are set right. He could have a ritual / blessing that would heal the PC's and restore one third or half or more of there surges.