4th edition "Black belt DM's Guide": best of the internet

[sangeet]

Well, Dungeonmastering is compiling rules & story to a enjoyable thing, so to especially focus on the 4e thing i.e. rules / monster design could only be of value if it´s story driven. I play essentially to tell tales with groups of peaple. So , yes 4e is also a tactial chess like boardgame, but it comes only alive if you describe the manoevers you do with your "chess" figures. So, even if it´s worth to spend time on mechanical details, it´s not the main focus of the game. Without story it would be a sole statistical game, where the math is the most important thing, this might appeal the power mongers, but i think even they imagine themselfs as characters who like to change the gaming world. I understand that this is a complex thematic, i.e. sorting out where to start and where to end with the advices. But at least if you say the topic is mechanical details of 4e , what help is there ? Just the house rules ? Adding props ? I have seen a lot of good advise already with the pipe cleaners, as markers for AOE effects, with bottle rings to mark status conditions on miniatures, the projector as a tool for battlemaps etc etc .. This are already very valid thing´s which is worth to consider. I got also to a regional con to see other DM´s style of play, and to see if i could copy some of their ideas. (Initative Order with letters placed over the DM screen was a good idea , i taken from there.) But never the less, please consider also to TOC information ressources which are story driven, rules without story are empty. General Advices are system independend, but you could focus on the fantasy thematic which spares a lot of trouble a Dungeonmaster for Shadowrun has. Bringing alive a Matrix, Astral World, Fantasy & SciFi Elements which is compellling all at once is very very hard, if you dont just put up standard criminal activity as one shot adventures. Ok, D&D has now a similar thing with the Shadwofell, Feywild, but you dont have to cope with this all at once, you could chunk it in seperate adventures. I read currently a forum of an old RPG , where they complain a lot about the avilablity of the many sourcebook´s , the more material there is where everyone has to agree about, the more peaple start to fight , which is the most recent interpretation of the fantasy world. It take´s away the control from the World Designer DM to the Sourcebook avilable to Player´s which try to clinge to this books to gain some advantage in the fantasy World via argumenting : this is official, it has to be this way... So this might be a system specific issue, but i think it´s the same for all old fantasy world´s the source of material could be overwhelming. To bring this post to an end, yes it´s hard to draw a line, which information is worth and which not. So i would say, if what you like is 4e, stick to it, it´s your project, and you shall have fun doing it. But if you like to have it "living" bring up discussion where peaple like to brag about, so this will contribute also quite a lot. Probably keep the discussion in EN WORLD, so there will be more participants and contributers.

 

[moxcamel]

That was painful.

 

[Quickleaf]

A quick update I am researching potential wikis with blog functionality, tags, and a way for users to rate "articles" (I use that term loosely since one of the goals is creating a portal). Also I am combing through my notes about great DMing blogs and common problems/questions regarding 4e.

The best way you can contribute, if you'd like, is to present either a problem you've encountered as a 4e DM or a great solution you created or found online. Please be specific and avoid superficial comments like "4e is a grind." I'm looking for unique/quality observations and creative solutions with meat on their bones.


[MENTION=6670354]sangeet[/MENTION]
I think the story vs rules debate is misleading. For example, say there is an article called "Heroes Never Rest" which deals with events happening in your world's background while at the same time creating dramatic tension to drive the PCs forward into danger.

Here is how I would tie this article to 4e:

Say the villain's plans advance during the PCs' extended rests...what does that look like? Is it a simple timeline as in at extended rest #1 this happens? Does the villain prepare ritual defenses (which ones) or reset traps? Do the monsters get reinforcements so that the next encounter the PCs face transitions right into another encounter without allowing a short rest? A triggered skill challenge to evade discovery? Some affliction like lycanthropy vexing the PC using the disease track? Does an NPC have an opportunity to betray the PCs giving the villain an edge in the next fight or letting him interfere with an investigation? Maybe the PCs only get partial benefits from resting in a dangerous area and you throw in a random encounter which kickstarts the excitement?

Is there an impending time limit so the PCs only have a limited number of short rests before calamity? Does the adventure site radiate a malevolent influence putting a rider effect on healing surges the PCs spend or each power they recover? Or are there additional benefits to reaching "milestones" related to your story like gaining a temporary NPC companion, receiving a magical blessing, learning critical intelligence, or allowing the party to stage an ambush?

 

[surfarcher]

I think there was a certain nostalgia for him, like campers/river guides and Pabst Blue Ribbon. And what this has to do with DMing 4th edition I have no clue...maybe we need an article on Aussie gamers? I shudder at the thought of what would go in it

Nah an article on aussie gamers would just shame the rest of the world

And I have no idea what this has to do with 4e We seem to have drifted OT

In an effort to get back On Topic I'd be happy to contribute in the areas of Skill Challenges (IMHO the single area where folks need the most help) and helping reduce combat "grind" (I'm not so much of an expert there but folks seem to appreciate my ideas on this).

Cheers!

 

[sangeet]

Okay, i see the rules which shall backup the process of designing encounters. Essentially scripting encounter´s and tie set back conditions to it, or to a sequence of encounters. You rest, but now the "dungeon" is alarmed type of thing. Well this could be formulated, and is also for sure a good idea, especially if you increase the set back´s not just to "reinforcement" but also onto other ascpects of the terrain, or what is if the opposition is fleeing ? And does not wait untill the mighty (and feared) heros show up to mash the villian up once again ? The encounter could change to a chase, but the battelmap does not allow this, so it could change to a skill challenge, how do you manage this transition effectively ? Could the clever shortcut, and streetwise overcome your lower street attribute ? If i continue this, way, then i see me still to the rule´s lawyering aspect, of the game, but i agree that there shall be a standard term (like villan or antagonist) to forge general aspects to get a common sense. Well, i hope you will put up a link soon, so i could post things i found intresting, probaly you will pick things up.

 

[Quickleaf]

[MENTION=6670354]sangeet[/MENTION]

Are you a bot or a troll?

Your posts are exceptionally scrambled and confusing. I am still trying to figure out what you just said. Something about rules lawyering?

And I absolutely won't be posting a link until I find the right wiki set up, and have corresponded with the other D&D gurus and bloggers on the net. I may be misreading you, but the "ooo I've got a cool idea" attitude really isn't pertinent to a vetted portal type wikiblog.

If you have something clear and constructive, however, I am all ears.

 

[Quickleaf]

[MENTION=84774]surfarcher[/MENTION]

Hi Doug, what did you have in mind?

Here are some of the skill challenge topics I've seen repeatedly discussed in the net and experienced at our table:

When to run a skill challenge and when not?
Alternative advantages
Skill challenge "vulnerabilities"
Consequences of failure
Degrees of success
Narrative-mechanics divide
Encouraging skill risk taking
Introducing strategic choices
Skill challenge "templates"
Mini-game skill challenges
Homebrew skill challenge rules (the only one I know is Stalker0's system)

As for "reducing combat grind", do you've a link to a post you've made? Or a blog? Or at least can you sum up what people appreciate about your approach to combat?

The topics I've outlined for combat in general include:

Goals besides "kill all monsters"
Guide to terrain design
Conditions: tweakin and tracking
Fast n furious skirmishes (without a major subsytem)

I feel like I'm missing something big in that list that I just read about. Ah well, that's what I'm thinking so far.

 

[surfarcher]

The items you've listed for SCs are good. I'd also add these:

• The pros and cons of hidden and announced SCs
• Thought processes for designing SCs
• SCs as a "tracking and accounting" mechanic
• SCs: More than just skills!

Yeah stalker0's system is interesting, another alternative SC system was done by Charles Ryan... Also interesting.

You could have a look through my [ALL Editions] Workshop: Non-Combat Game Structures (Skill Challenges, etc) thread at rpg.net to see the kind of thing I am talking about.


As for "grind" I'd add:

• When is grind an issue?
• The elements of grind
• For the DM side I'd lift stalker0's anti-grind system piecemeal
• For the player's side have a peek at two of my campaign wiki Combat Notes and Rewards System

Just my thoughts. There's plenty of other talented DMs who can no doubt contribute more. Those are just the areas I think I might have something worthwhile to contribute.

 

[sangeet]

@ quickleaf sorry when my post was not clear enough, i was probably a bit scrambled while posting, because i was thinking back and forth between the rules & story aspect. Now that you postet more topics of what you intend to do, i could see more clearly now. I like it, and i will contribute if i can. For the Skill challenges /roll ´s : Each Roll, which is exceeded by 5 of the DC increases the measurment step of the success. Measurement step example: The DC is 19, the player rolls a 22 -> this is a normal success The DC is 19, the player rolls a 23 -> this is a good success The DC is 19, the player rolls a 28 -> this is a exceptional result You could add together the good & exceptional results, and count this against the normal needed successes. Two good successes count as one exceptional success, and a exceptional success might cancel out a failure done during the skill challenge. The idea behind this, is that you formalize the measurment of success, also allowing the player to exaggerate how he overcome the obstacle. (hmm, sorry i dont know why the forum does remove all my paragraphs from my postings, i tryed to edit it a few times, but it did not work out.)

 

[TarionzCousin]

Better than Oregon grape n blackberry jam on homemade sourdough from 100 year old Belgian starter?

Hey, whoa, let's not get overzealous there.

Good luck with this project.