Why DMs Don't Like Magic Marts

[Tequila Sunrise]

It’s not because Magic Marts polish the authentic patina of medieval rust off of our lovingly crafted campaigns. Think about it; we accept all kinds of other anti-medieval trappings in our campagins: anyone of any relavance seems to know how to read and write -- even druids and simpletons. D&D women are only expected to fill medieval gender roles if they’re unwilling to wear or unattractive in a chainmail bikini. And let’s not forget that just about everyone -- even moronic orcs -- are bilingual. Even pegasi understand the common tongue, for Io’s sake!

So don’t kid yourself that Magic Marts ruin the medieval theme. No, the real reason we DMs don’t like Magic Marts is that they create a point buy subsystem. And all patriotic and red-blooded DMs instinctively know that point buy systems are Evil. Search your heart; you know this to be true.

If you still don’t see the light, I’ll explain. What happens in a Magic Mart campaign? Your players go into a dungeon, steal or loot as much junk as they can stuff into their bags of holding, and then they head back to ye olde towne Magic Mart. They sell all the treasure you gave them in the dungeon, in exchange for points [coins], and then they buy better bonuses and powers [items] with those points [coins].

And like all point buy systems, Magic Marts increase the potential for both under- and over-powered PCs in your game. One player might decide to dump all of his points into offense [a magic weapon] while ignoring defense [AC items]. And because AC is 90% dependent on items, that PC becomes a glass cannon. Which in turn results in very short encounters, frequent resurrections, and probably massive annoyance.

See what I mean? Magic Marts are just a front for point buying, and point buying is the enemy of D&D. It’s everything that mustache-twirling villains stand for, and they’re using Magic Marts to subvert innocent D&Ders into point buyers. So be vigilant, and don’t let the other-skins win!

This message is brought to you by your friendly neighborhood fun police.

 

[Diamond Cross]

You know, if you want a medieval theme you should just keep magic out of the game entirely.

But in a magic world, people are going to sell their wares in order to make money for themselves.

It's only logical.

What is this? A cycle where everybody rags on Magic? What next? Everybody rag on the Rogue for being overpowered?

Come on.

 

[billd91]

Magic Marts also interfere with the DM putting specific items in hoards that are useful to the campaign later on. Suppose I have an encounter planned in the adventuring site that's a lot easier to deal with because of a specific item and I've placed it in a trove the PCs are likely to encounter before they'll need it. Unless it's one of those items that's constantly useful (the Big 6), if the PCs have the power to cash it in for whatever they want, it'll be gone before it reaches its ultimate utility.

Without easy magic marts, I used to see more players hanging onto quirky items with a "we'll see" attitude toward the item's usefulness.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

Eh


I'd argue that Magic Marts are a symptom, not the real problem - the problem is the neccesity of magic items.


The cure isn't to just remove Magic Marts or item crafting, it's to implement inherent bonuses and to kill the +1 sword, so that all the magic items that are found are all unique and weird.


( Also pretty sure the humor tag is very well going to waste here )

 

[thedungeondelver]

I don't allow them not out of any like or dislike (when I was a kid I created a magic store in the titular KEEP ON THE BORDERLANDS that featured a candy-store like approach to the sale of wands, for example). It's just that in my campaign world, the Circle of Eight (and dukes, kings, etc.) wants "magic shops" about like Congress wants "heavy weapons shops" that sell FGM142 JAVELIN anti-tank missiles, B61 tactical nuclear warheads, and so on.

So stuff tends to get bought up by "agents" damn quick

 

[MrMyth]

I'm kinda in agreement with ProfCirno on the solution here - make base bonuses inherent, and keep magic items unique. If traveling salesman wander by, have an actual list of what they've got, rather than magically having everything under the sun. At least, I hope to try out such a system in my next game - I don't imagine it is the only way to play, but I'm interested in seeing how it feels in practice.

For myself, I think there are games where I have no problems with magic marts, and others where I do. And I don't think any one reason is truly the problem - sometimes it is due to thematic issues. Other times it is due to the sheer time delay it causes with PCs wanting to go shoping. At other times it is due to power level issues - sometimes by how it boosts numbers as a whole, sometimes because I don't want to walk into a session and get blindsided by a new combo of items.

 

[Stormonu]

Magic Marts fail when they allow PCs to just throw money at problems (gobs and gobs of money - and why hasn't the propieter been robbed blind yet?)

 

[delericho]

Meh. Some campaigns, I like magic item markets and use them. Other games, I don't like them and don't use them.

In any case, the "Magic Item Walmart" is an exaggeration not really supported by the 3e core rulebooks. (Any more than "every encounter must be at an EL equal to the party level".) All the books say is that in a town of size X, there is likely to be someone willing to part with an item of value Y - which may be the same in effect, but is vastly different in feel.

There is, however, some truth in magic items being a point-buy system, and there being optimisation problems with point-buy systems. I'm leaning very strongly towards the notion that the numerical modifiers a character uses (for attacks, AC, etc) should be a factor of the character, and magic items (and mundane items for that matter) just allow the character to use those modifiers in new and interesting ways. (Effectively, silo "what the character can do" from "how good the character is at doing it", with magic items strictly expanding the former, never the latter.)

 

[Herremann the Wise]

I'd argue that Magic Marts are a symptom, not the real problem - the problem is the neccesity of magic items.

The cure isn't to just remove Magic Marts or item crafting, it's to implement inherent bonuses and to kill the +1 sword, so that all the magic items that are found are all unique and weird.

Is there anything wrong with saying that the mundane quality and craftmanship of weaponry determines the mechanical bonuses rather than the magic? For example:

Quality (Bonus/Penalty)
(-1 or worse) Poor Quality (broken condition if using Pathfinder)
(+0) Used/Standard (Standard operating etc.)
(+1) Superior Quality
(+2) Masterwork Quality
(+3 or better) Exquisite Quality

In fact, how difficult is it to get rid of all +x magical items, melding them in to character development? {In 4e, you are going to destroy the whole magic system but that is another story and why I hate how 4e treats magic}

My preference is similar to Professor Cirno: leaving magic to mysterious and "magical" effects.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[cildarith]

Magic Marts fail when they allow PCs to just throw money at problems (gobs and gobs of money - and why hasn't the propieter been robbed blind yet?)

And campaigns fail when the players spend more time trying to rob the magic shop than going on the adventure.

And who can blame them?