Why DMs Don't Like Magic Marts

[Lord Zardoz]

In 3e, things could get really out of hand really quickly - by 3rd level a character could have a +20 Hide modifier using Core Rules only and without magic items (Halfling with Dex 20 can have 6 ranks, +5 for Dex, +4 for Small, +2 for Stealthy feat, +3 for Skill Focus feat). And the difference between a specialist and a non-specialist often meant that at high levels one character might succeed on a '2' where another needed a '20', and that only if 20 was an auto-success!

I'm less familiar with 4e in general, but it does seem to be a bit better. However, it does seem to be rife with all manner of ways to eke out just another +1 here or there...

4th Edition tends towards specific types of items doing specific things. Your Implement / Weapon item will add to your attack and damage rolls, but nothing else will. The guideline is not 100% enforced, but it is enforced enough that you generally wont be able to twink your bonuses through multiple magical items. The power creep seems to be geared more towards adding new class powers that are better then old ones, and items that trigger or allow actions when you normally would not have them. Those things are more situational though (and a character can only use a daily from a magic item once per day per 10 levels or something; That rule is buried in the PHB1 under equipment and easy to overlook, but it is there).

END COMMUNICATION

 

[TheAuldGrump]

For me, liking or disliking Magic Mart TM depends on setting - if I am running either Eberron or Iron Kingdoms then I don't mind too much, at least in regards to common items - both have more or less embraced the idea of mass production.

Otherwise buying magic items means commissioning the item, which takes time, since qualified producers of magic items tend to have a waiting list. I generally leave the price as listed, but time... if ya wants it quick ya gotta pays extra.

The Auld Grump

 

[Nork]

I think the real real problem with magic item shops is that players won't spend their gold on anything else unless the GM arm-twists/railroads them into doing so.

Players are just not going to drop large sums of gold "points" on something silly like a priest having a statue of their deity built, or a bard hosting an extravagant society event. Nope, the gold points are all going to be spent on getting the next combat upgrade as soon as possible.

With inherent bonuses and not allowing for easy item sales/purchase, the players are going to start doing RP things with their gold since they will quickly run out of stuff to spend it on (which is why rich people do silly things like build statues and host extravagant parties in the first place).

 

[TheAuldGrump]

I think the real real problem with magic item shops is that players won't spend their gold on anything else unless the GM arm-twists/railroads them into doing so.

Players are just not going to drop large sums of gold "points" on something silly like a priest having a statue of their deity built, or a bard hosting an extravagant society event. Nope, the gold points are all going to be spent on getting the next combat upgrade as soon as possible.

With inherent bonuses and not allowing for easy item sales/purchase, the players are going to start doing RP things with their gold since they will quickly run out of stuff to spend it on (which is why rich people do silly things like build statues and host extravagant parties in the first place).

Ummm, my players have done such things - I have not had a problem with them spending money only on magic items.

And this is with two Pathfinder groups, including one with players in their teens and tweens - Their headquarters has a marble floor, for example, and a massive stained glass window of their exploits.

Generalities are generally wrong in aggregate. The exceptions, I think, outnumber that which follows the norm, when it comes to gamers.

The Auld Grump

 

[prosfilaes]

(which is why rich people do silly things like build statues and host extravagant parties in the first place).

Because of what? Do they run out of businesses to buy? Investments to make? They do extravagant things with their money the same reason the middle-class and poor do extravagant things with their money.

 

[Noctos]

i have read 90% of all peoples posts and have to say. this topic grabs me. not due to the main question or first posting but because all the views and opinions each person has posted.

Lets start with saying i have often ran a very magical world. i have encountered nearly every problem posted but only once per-problem as i think of hostlie ways to counter act it. Secondly i played with egotistical s to say the least.
A person or more posted being a hassle to keep players from attempting to loot said shop. (which i can say happened in my world once). one refereed to it as fort knocks so undo able.(my players wouldn't by that and try anyways) .Others talked about turning the place in a pay now return later for your goods kind of store. Used it, works great as it difficult to rob. To stop people in my world from robbing a full on store. i enlisted a number of things the one i'm most proud of being the practically empty shop. When entered it had a dozen magical items on the shelf nothing better than +1. But it had a small stack of books. and in each book was pictures and short descriptions of magical things on each page. The players could shift through the pages and if they located something they wanted they could paid for it and then the shop keeper pull's it out of the pages and hand it to them. Players deciding what a great thing the book is take it all with ease by just stealing the book and have a huge list of easy to carry items. erp no. happened once but i didn't let them ever figure out how to place in side or remove from the pages any item. And after so long the creator of the book and true own of the shop sent servants out to retrieve the book. They did fight the servants in hope obtaining all the magical gear they carried. but failed. and as a punishment the wizard school that designed and funded the shop forced the party to contribute at least one or more magical items to the stores collection. (The players never tried to rob a item shop again) To those of you who think is is a lot of extra work why not just leave them out it's simple it has more fun. The players were pisssed off when they had to waste a year or 2 of there life forging items they could not keep. and i got to laugh

People commented on the stock and how players will just buy anything and everything look stuff up and demand to by it. If you had this problem and gave in? why? Even stores today don't have everything they have the most commonly sold material and maybe a few rare things (outrageously priced) from time to time. Under this concept it made it very easy to tell players not don't have it or yeah they have that 200,000 gold. Most magic marts are filled with junk. the all complained about +gear, common potions, minor scrolls, A few pieces mid-grade gear like robe of shadows, scrying orb, a wand. but never everything. For added spice you can throw in a extra spiff item or two but don't tell the players how to use all it's powers. I made players who found stuff in dungeons or towers have to research the item. They could sense it was magical but casting identify on it wouldn't help on anything past the common magical gear. If it was truly powerful and did wonderful things then people must have seen it in actions in the past and some story righter or historian would have descriptions of it in action which after time may lead to the player finally mastering it. I had a player carry a sword he found in a tower around over a year of real time before he knew 4 of it's abilities still 3 togo.
If you foolishly allowed a player buy an item that started to hinder your DM ability? (happens to the best of us (drunk)at times) Then break it steal it, or better yet add and extre effect that doesn't become appearant until it's been in the possesion of the player for aloted amount of time. my favorit was after 6 months or usage it started to rapidly youth-inze the person something like 5 years aday. and until they left the item alone for 2months or more they couldn't touch it.
Other times i might of had the item they bought from the store was stolen from a powewrful adventure who comes to reclaim it,
The most common and easiest thing to do if your players get to magically set is to increase the challange of the game. With new and improved opponents and better described counters to players throwing spells or powers at will.

thats is all for now enjoy your gaming by widing the path

 

[Jon_Dahl]

For me the reason to ban magic-shops is a very simple in-game solution.

5% of magical items are cursed. Curses are nasty things that are sometimes worse than death. To find out if the item is cursed requires Analyze Dweomer spell, which costs about 2500 gp.

No sane government of any period or culture (fantasy or real) would allow anyone to sell things that puts the buyer and everyone else randomly at jeopardy. So you have to analyze the items by a guarantined 11th-level wizard, which easily increases the price by few thousand of gp's.

This basically makes the sale of anything other than high-level items unprofitable. So forget your potion shops please... Few years ago someone bought a potion with the "Character’s gender changes"-trait. That was it.

You can view it any way you want, but "http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicItemBasics.htm#cursedItems" is very clear. And you can never really know what is randomly generated in-game.

 

[Zhaleskra]

I know this is a humor thread, but my objection is just the assumption that 1. there is one, 2. what you want is going to be there, and 3. the proprieter is willing to sell it to you.

Personally, I blame games like the original Final Fantasy.

 

[Noctos]

You can view it any way you want, but "http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicItemBasics.htm#cursedItems" is very clear. And you can never really know what is randomly generated in-game.

The rules or d20 system oh you mean the game thats not Dungeon and Dragons it's the d20 system. thanks in a conversation about DnD that other gaming system's rules are VERY useful and relevent. thanks

 

[TarionzCousin]

Don't shop at a Magic Mart. Shop smart. Shop S-Mart.