Speeding up combat

[thundershot]

Okay, after the first few sessions (Kingmaker), I realized one of the things I hated about 3.5 and 4E.... The combat that never ends. What things have you tried to speed things up? Here's what I'm experimenting:


Halve the monsters hit points
Giving the monsters +2 to hit, damage, and saves.

In general, there comes a point where we KNOW who is gonna win, and it's just dragging out. Naturally, the second half of this will only go so far, because as the PC's go up in level, that +2 will become less and less significant. I was thinking about adding an additional +1 every 4-5 levels to help keep up with the PC's.

So far, combat has definitely been faster (except in cases where no one is hitting anyone). Even with less hp, the monsters are still a force to be reckoned with since they're hitting 10% more often and doing more damage.

The only issue I've had are spells like magic missile that don't require a hit roll or save. Having half the hp makes these spells more potent. I don't want to cripple the PC's in any way, I want all the alterations to be on my end... I think as they increase in level and have more hp, that problem will go away.

I think.


Any comments? Suggestions?


Thanks
Chris

 

[Dingo333]

Magic Missile may not require a save or a to hit, but it is limited by SR, once the monsters start getting that, it will balance out (note that the celestial, fiendish, resolute and entropic all provide SR = CR{new} +5)

A couple weeks ago, we ran into a "fecal matter" monster. we could barely hurt the thing but at the same time, if couldn't do anything to us, more annoying then anything. Once we basically found its weakness, DM just said "you pound on it for a while and it stops moving" thing regenerated so it has been a bit of a running joke, popping up in the back of the basalisk lair, the spider pit, the ogre's bathroom and so on. The DM just says we beat on it for an hour or so, then moves on

 

[Glade Riven]

I've used the minion system from 4e in Pathfinder with success. Have reinforcments show up if the battle is going too quick, or have others run away if it is taking too long. I also pay close attention to combat pacing and am more than willing to adjust numbers (such as HP) on the fly. It takes a bit of practice, but it's worth it.

 

[Crothian]

Why are your combats slow? Are they going many rounds like ten or more and the PCs just can't seem to kill off the monster quickly? Or are the rounds of battle closer to 5 and the players are just not moving as quick as they could? Players can do a lot to speed up how long it takes them to act and it doesn't require house rules and from what I've noticed across many game systems when things go slow more then often it is the players more then game causing it.

 

[Aspect of Veles]

Why are your combats slow? Are they going many rounds like ten or more and the PCs just can't seem to kill off the monster quickly? Or are the rounds of battle closer to 5 and the players are just not moving as quick as they could? Players can do a lot to speed up how long it takes them to act and it doesn't require house rules and from what I've noticed across many game systems when things go slow more then often it is the players more then game causing it.

I don't have any Pathfinder experience (yet), but from my experience, games which require a battle mat tend to take significantly longer to resolve battles than games which do not. For example, the last two campaigns I've run (4E and CoC) have had significantly differing lengths for combat, although CoC doe include less complex rule than D&D/Pathfinder for combat and i not a focused on it. From my experience, a more narrative style of play tend to keep the largest number of players enthralled, as it can be adjusted as it flows without being obvious much easier than with a battle mat.

It' jut my opinion, but from my experience, if you find combat i taking too long, remove the miniature/etc and simply tell the combat, using your own judgment to decide things like reach, range, and attacks of opportunity.

 

[Mojo_Rat]

all I can really suggest is examine the types of encounters doing and maybe revise them. example we finished a campaign just recently at lvl 10 the fights took forever. the bad guys had lot of minions and some of the fights were complicated. so we finished the campaign and are doing a two shot lvl 18 game we dud the first session. I was expecting it to be slow he fights wre streamlined and fast. we did 3 fights I'n one session. a cr 16 fight with iron golems where we had no gear and two cr 18 fights.

next session well fight two balor to retrieve a deck of many things . it will be slow probably because of the summons.

thus was with a different dm and everything was less cluttered. I recommend if you do have bigger fights compartmentalize things so you are dealing with kess at one time.

 

[IronWolf]

Okay, after the first few sessions (Kingmaker), I realized one of the things I hated about 3.5 and 4E.... The combat that never ends. What things have you tried to speed things up? Here's what I'm experimenting:
Any comments? Suggestions?

Why are your combats slow? Are they going many rounds like ten or more and the PCs just can't seem to kill off the monster quickly? Or are the rounds of battle closer to 5 and the players are just not moving as quick as they could?

I'm with Crothian - what specifically is causing things to go slow?

We've been running Kingmaker for awhile now and combats are far from slow from what we've seen. Now we have a pretty experienced group of players, so things move quickly from that perspective. In our case I actually kick the amount of hit points up on a lot of the critters and the combats are still done in a pretty timely manner.

 

[thundershot]

It's not the players. That part goes fine. The problem is that even in a small battle, the PC's rarely ever hit, and the monsters have the same problem. So by halving the monster hp and increasing their attack power, the monsters hit more often, and when the PC's hit, they make a bigger dent in the creature since it has fewer hp.

Part of is that it's a 3 person group, and there's a Ranger, a Ranger/Wizard, and a Cleric. No heavy hitters. The constant missing and minimal damage coupled with the round after round of nothing was making everyone bored. The last session I tested what I put in the first post, and they had a lot more fun, even if they got beat up a little more than usual.

 

[tlantl]

you could add an npc or two to the party. A fighter or barbarian to add some beef to the party. fewer misses and more damage per whack. these types of basic characters are easy to use and will help a lot. they also take loot from the rest of the group so the players are always hungry for treasure.

I do this a lot since I only have a three man group much of the time myself.

Another way to deal with the problem is to let your players use two characters. Give each of them a hireling to use. A character that is half the player's level, that earns only a fraction of the experience and loot. These guys die a lot so expect a little griping if the players get attached.

Finally you could set your players against monsters that naturally have lower ACs and lower hit points. adjusting dexterity and constitution scores down a little might make combat go more quickly. Or use fewer monsters but give more Xp for defeating them.

My biggest gripe is that there is too much combat and not enough time to get to the heart of any adventure I write. Before 3e and the combat grid there was much more campaign and much less combat, but D&D became a tactical combat game and lost a lot of it's role playing aspect.

good luck

 

[Kaisoku]

Yeah, the party composition (especially a combat/caster multiclass) sounds like a major factor in this. Standard combat shouldn't have the problems you see, but that's because you've got a non-standard group.
So non-standard fixes should work out fine.

There's a lot of things you could do, but:

The last session I tested what I put in the first post, and they had a lot more fun

.. means you are doing it right. If everyone is having a good time, then you gotta be doing something right, heh.

*Small Addendum*
Note that at higher levels, the party composition shouldn't be as big of a problem anymore, and kingmaker is nothing, if not the place to have Leadership or some kind of "extra NPCs" to pick up, if needed. Letting the players (and letting them know they can) think outside the box is a good idea. If they want to gather a "posse" and take down something important, this is a good adventure path to let them.
Okay, so it wasn't a small addendum.