Pathfinder 1E Anyone using Trailblazer with Pathfinder?

[ThatGuyThere]

Honestly, the only things I've found useful in Trailblazer are already part of Pathfinder's core.

I might look into to combat reactions, but that's about it.

I think you're both praising Trailblazer, and selling it short, there.

It's a solid product. It pokes and prods the rough patches of the 3.5 engine, and reviews some of the base assumptions. It's an <interesting> read, even if you don't play Trailblazer, directly. (The same as, even if you continue playing 3.5, it's worthwhile to read Pathfinder.)

On the other hand, it's incomplete, I'll grant - it feels a lot like a "patch" instead of a "new game". It doesn't replace the PHB / DMG; it refers you back to the core rules for a lot of parts, and leaves a lot of it to (essentially) DM's call / Rule 0. I'd prefer it if there was a hardcover, hand-the-book-to-my-players full Trailblazer book with spell lists, spells-per-day lists, etc, etc.

I would like a "complete" Trailblazer (including a monster book, in hardcover!) to hold next to my Pathfinder Core Rulebook.

And then I'd press the books together in a vise, and take the best ideas of each.

 

[PolterGhost]

Well, Pathfinder did a lot of things...well, not "right", but better, in my opinion. I thik my big issue with Trailblazer is that it's just a hodgepodge book that basically says what the primary flaws are in 3.5, but doesn't give, once again in my opinion, a proper way to remediate them. The beginning of the book itself, where it lists all of the percentages and optimal whatever per level, seems to start at one point but ends at another contradicting point. I'd rather not read through how the percentages "work" on an optimal basis, but rather how they work on an average basis based on the assumption that player characters are not going to constantly find or purchase the items to make themselves optimal in AC or Attack Bonus.

On another note, the equipment and spell sections seemed overly complicated for something that really didn't require a mechanics fix but more of a DM's touch to make it work without breaking the game. On top of this, things like Hero Points are just part of a "wild card" system that I think no game really needs, so I don't really agree to it as a "fix". If anything, I think the most broken parts of the game are what the DM allows to occur without consequence. Well, that and how AC never seems to scale with level and the way spell saving throws work for both the caster and the recipient.

 

[ThatGuyThere]

On another note, the equipment and spell sections seemed overly complicated for something that really didn't require a mechanics fix but more of a DM's touch to make it work without breaking the game.

Whereas I find their treasure parcel suggestions - including the "stick to giving out the basics" - profoundly good advice. Advice / math that I could reach on my own? Oh, certainly. But I hadn't, after 8-ish years. So advice I was glad for.

On top of this, things like Hero Points are just part of a "wild card" system that I think no game really needs, so I don't really agree to it as a "fix". If anything, I think the most broken parts of the game are what the DM allows to occur without consequence. Well, that and how AC never seems to scale with level and the way spell saving throws work for both the caster and the recipient.

Hero / Action points (as the book points out) fix the 'save or die' aspect of the game - with multiple tries, and boosts to those attempts, 'save or die' spell now exhaust a resource (Hero Points), instead of simply killing characters. Like the book says - they're plot-protection.

On the other hand, I agree that their magic section was... inadequate. They broke magic spells into three types, gave a few (3-5) examples and general guidelines on each, and left you to have to sort out the whole spell list by type. Ugh.

 

[PolterGhost]

See, save or die spells never really bothered me. Sure, they were a minor inconvenience, but our groups always seemed to use them as a source of humor rather than a detriment. It's like "Well, how the heck do we carry this statue of Bellminster to the nearest transmuter? Figures that the one guy who knows Stone to Flesh gets petrified..."

Plot protection always seemed weak to me. I'm the kamikaze in our group that wants to make new characters from scratch every time I do something stupid, not have the DM go "Oh, uh, well, the murderous goblin army you ran headfirst into without thinking suddenly asks you to surrender." The fact of the matter is, if I stumble upon a cockatrice and suddenly get turned to stone, it's either my fault for not planning the encounter out or the DM's fault for giving me no indication that a stoning monster was sitting around the corner having a smoke break.

 

[Henry]

My personal belief is that Ben Durbin of Bad Axe was pretty influential on a lot of little tweaks that eventually showed up in Pathfinder, both in conversations with the Paizo developers and through discussions on these very forums (though I can't lay my fingers on the specific threads at the moment). I remember some VERY long discussion threads during the Alpha versions of Pathfinder concerning Encounter design, CR-to-XP adjustments, and a host of other small issues where something VERY similar showed up in Pathfinder - or at least a changed mechanic that showed someone started thinking about the very things Ben was discussing.

 

[Technodox]

I've been running a Pathfinder game with stuff from Trailblazer for a few months now and my group's digging some of the changes. The two we're digging the most are Action Points and Combat Reactions. My friend playing the Barbarian and the one playing our Rogue/Ranger especially love the combat reactions. Theyve lost count how often being able to drop that AoO for DR or a dodge bonus has saved their hash.

Other stuff ive used are Elites and Solos. I was thinking about bringing something similar in before since my time playing 4E, but it is cool to see a decent set of rules to give me a guideline instead me guesstimating and possibly TPK'ing the party.

I've also been cherry picking some of the stuff from the classes, like the Weapon training stuff for the fighter. Earlier DR for the Barbarian, the combat bonus thing for Rogues (the name escapes me at the moment for what its called). Ive also been using the Magic BAB. But thus far, no one's done any spellcasting multiclassing, so the only person it's really helped is the groups sorceror who gets his spells earlier.

As i said at the start, im digging the Trailblazer stuff. Though i think id use less of it the next time i run a PF game. Since this is also the first PF game im running, perhaps next time through something a bit less hodge podge.

 

[DaveMage]

Anyone know when the Trailblazer monster book is supposed to be out?

 

[IronWolf]

Anyone know when the Trailblazer monster book is supposed to be out?

The most recent post (2/25) I can find is from GlassJaw in the Bad Axe Forums saying it is 85% of the way there:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/bad-axe-games-hosted-forum/301945-monster-book-timeline.html

 

[ThatGuyThere]

...the combat bonus thing for Rogues (the name escapes me at the moment for what its called).

Just straight incorporated it?

I made it a Rogue Talent (since I found Pathfinder Rogues didn't need much help, anyway - but a little extra 'combat punch' seemed like a good Talent).

Also, while I liked the "Magic Base Attack" rules, has anyone anywhere actually tried the "spell access from all classes" rule, so that if I'm a Cleric / Wizard I prepare all my spells into the same set of "slots"? I understand the argument (particularly incorporating 10-minute rests) that a character with two spell lists will never be able to use 'em all - but that was always the <reason> to multiclass as two spellcasters to me...

 

[Ahnehnois]

Personally, I rewrote the rogue class. I took the TB attack bonus progression for rogues, and added in a matching damage bonus as well (and completely altered sneak attack). I think it's really valuable to have rogues be able to hit things. I didn't remove crit immunity (frankly, if you did, you'd really have to give the nonliving creatures Con).

That in mind, I also wonder where the TB monster book is.