Rule of Three 3/11/11

[ppaladin123]

Why as an immediate reaction? Just make it a free action. Making it an immediate reaction is a pretty big cost (especially at higher tiers, when the assassin arguably struggles the most) for something that the assassin really shouldn't be losing in the first place at all.

I was just going with the precedent set by the feat. I doubt it would be a problem to change it to a free action like you said though.

 

[Aspeon]

On the other hand a warlock can hide in broad daylight, without needing allies to give him cover and hence look maximally suspicious as well. This is because he can maintain concealment by moving 3 squares with a simple class feature.

Well, Shadow Walk has the disadvantage that you must move 3 squares a round, which means you make a Stealth check every round at -5. But maybe giving the Shade that ability without the disadvantage would be worth it?

One With Shadow - Shade racial utility
At Will - Shadow
Standard Action - Personal
Effect: You have concealment until the end of your next turn.

 

[chitzk0i]

In a skill challenge or out of combat, it's easy enough for a player to say, "I want to find a place to hide" and the DM will narrate up a place to hide if it's reasonable. And in the places where the landscape won't offer any cover or concealment (open areas like a grassy plain or a sandy desert), then the shade's racial power won't help anyway.

On the other hand, the majority of encounter maps I've seen don't offer total concealment or superior cover, so a power that lets you get by with regular concealment would be welcome. But it was deliberately priced to dissuade its use in combat.

So, yes. If the shade forces his entire party to travel at half speed, he can be out of sight during travel and start combat hidden. But if he moved his full speed with his move action, the shade would take -5 to his stealth. So if the shade wants to be confident he's hidden, he'll have to ask his allies to dawdle their way along at 2 squares a round.

(At last! We know why those bandits were neither running nor tarrying! They were letting their shade friend maintain stealth!)

Edit: As far as the Assassin thing goes, 4 rounds is close to the length of an entire fight. It's a very bad plan to let your striker muck about for 4 rounds and then deal damage. Just like it's a bad plan for an essentials striker to spend random rounds dealing dex mod damage to accomplish weak control effects.

 

[I'm A Banana]

I'm pretty sure for the first answer that Mearls was just tossing off an idea, not implementing a rules change. Maybe it's a good idea, maybe not. I'm sure most of his design time is spent on new things, not on re-hashing the old.

Personally, I think one major flaw with the "you can move around your shrouds!" is that it feels a whole lot less like the "study an opponent and then deal a killing blow!" than the ability currently does. That's a good feel, that would be valuable to preserve. If I could punch it into the shape I wanted, I would have the shrouds do something other than be there. Like, give the Assassin a +1 stacking bonus to their attack rolls against the target. Like, let the Assassin pull the enemy to them (squares = # of shrouds). Like, give the party some bonus that goes away if they hit the dude (other party members are invisible until they hit the creature, for instance).

The shrouds should borrow some ideas from the Marks and the Warlock's Curse as ways to balance, but I don't think they should loose the "I am studying you and waiting for my opening against you" feel that just being able to shroud-shift would loose.

As for the shade...as much as I like the idea of looking beyond the encounter, I feel they flubbed it on this one. A shade with full healing surges wouldn't be so remarkably great at stealthing out of combat (in comparison to anybody trained in Stealth) that they need an out-of-combat price to pay. They're not going to avoid any more combats. They're not going to magically get hit any less.

Not that this couldn't be a method of balance, but it requires more detailed LTR-usage rules than currently exist, and far, far better stealth rules than currently exist.

 

[Tony Vargas]

If the shade forces his entire party to travel at half speed, he can be out of sight during travel and start combat hidden.

(At last! We know why those bandits were neither running nor tarrying! They were letting their shade friend maintain stealth!)

Cute, but not quite true. Normal overland travel (300' per minute for speed 6) is at the equivalent of a move action per round, not a double-move per round. Though, they'd have to creep along quite slowly if the Shade had no way to negate the -5, and wasn't too confident in his Stealth check at that penalty.

 

[Aegeri]

I actually assumed that was what he was implying Tony.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I thought was saying that the party would travel 'at half speed' because of the Standard action, the party couldn't spend thier standards for moves. /And/ that they'd have to go even slower to avoid the -5 penalty.

Normal overland movement, like 'Walking' in 3.5, is at the same rate as taking a move action per round, not a double-move per round. FWIW. I don't think that exactly saves the Shade's power or anything. It's just one of those little oft-overlooked rules of no real importance...
:shrug:

 

[Aspeon]

(At last! We know why those bandits were neither running nor tarrying! They were letting their shade friend maintain stealth!)

That thread is hilarious, but I need to spread XP around before XP-ing you.

 

[Marshall]

Personally, I think one major flaw with the "you can move around your shrouds!" is that it feels a whole lot less like the "study an opponent and then deal a killing blow!" than the ability currently does. That's a good feel, that would be valuable to preserve. If I could punch it into the shape I wanted, I would have the shrouds do something other than be there. Like, give the Assassin a +1 stacking bonus to their attack rolls against the target. Like, let the Assassin pull the enemy to them (squares = # of shrouds). Like, give the party some bonus that goes away if they hit the dude (other party members are invisible until they hit the creature, for instance).

If you want that feel than make the Assassins Shroud work like an Avengers Oath. You shroud something and it stays until they die or you do. Have it start at 1d6/tier bonus damage to one attack each round and increase 1d6 each round without going away. You can put a cap on it if you feel the need. I dont, its the perfect anti-grind effect.
Doing it that way makes it a true "Marked for Death" and actually makes it comparable damage to Quarry/Sneak or Curse. If you want to keep the miss effect part, you can give up the round-by-round increase to deal initial damage on a miss.

 

[chitzk0i]

I thought was saying that the party would travel 'at half speed' because of the Standard action, the party couldn't spend thier standards for moves. /And/ that they'd have to go even slower to avoid the -5 penalty.

Normal overland movement, like 'Walking' in 3.5, is at the same rate as taking a move action per round, not a double-move per round. FWIW. I don't think that exactly saves the Shade's power or anything. It's just one of those little oft-overlooked rules of no real importance...
:shrug:

Yeah, I thought overland movement was assuming 2 move actions a round.

I was talking assassins with my friend when I realized something: the e-ssassin's controller tricks would work a lot better with shrouds. Apply some debuffs and control while you bide your time and then boom! A devastating blow.