When did WotC D&D "Jump the Shark"?

[Dannyalcatraz]

Hell- ever look at their stereo systems? The prices for audio in the base exchanges, catalogs and now online are sometimes STOOPID low.

 

[Ourph]

It's that for the future of the hobby (ie the next generation of gamers), having a pair of smaller companies doing smaller projects might have a harder time pulling in new players or continuing to survive, etc.

Given the humble origins of the most popular brand name in our hobby (i.e. Gary Gygax gluing boxes together in his basement) I think it is entirely possible that it is your point of view that is short sighted. I think it is worth noting that the success of the game DROVE the growth of an industry and not the other way round. The hobby doesn't need the industry, the industry needs the hobby.

 

[Dice4Hire]

I have been impressed with WOTC's offerings this month or six weeks. Nice stuff, both on DDI and off.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Eh, hard to say. I think the demographics were at least that gamers were mostly young and male and when you have Army you have a lot of young guys around. College campuses, I think the thing is there you have mostly people with other open-ended demands on their time and less money to spend on things like games. Army pay might not be awesome but single guys living on base didn't NEED to spend a lot of money on necessities.

I'll agree with "hard to say". Of course, I've had plenty of female gamers in groups I've run as well. Even when I was in the Army. And, in the Army, not all of the gamers I played with were from on-post.



RC

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I'll agree with "hard to say". Of course, I've had plenty of female gamers in groups I've run as well. Even when I was in the Army. And, in the Army, not all of the gamers I played with were from on-post.



RC

Yeah, I seem to remember that we had a pretty heavy overrepresentation of guys back in those days in that particular area, since all the Army people were male. There were a pretty decent number of locals, though most of us in that category were high school age. My sister was at least as big a gamer as I am though.

Nowadays? Even in college? Yeah. In fact I think it has been a few years since the guys outnumbered the ladies in my group. I suspect, again without anything but personal observation, that the ratio of men to women has been evening out a lot since the early days. Lots more women in the Army too nowadays, though I'm not anywhere near that scene anymore.

 

[BryonD]

What page? I've been through the thread and don't recall them.

Works been nuts and it has been more than a week since I even logged in here. And honestly, I don't know what my frequency will be.

But that said, you were the one demanding proof, but now you can't even be bothered to be up to speed on the topics you are arguing? You are saying I have not made my case, but you admit you have no idea what case I have made. Clearly you are just presuming your own conclusions.

 

[BryonD]

Here's an example of why I don't buy the voodoo "evidence" that BryonD pins his conclusions on.

Look at Osric. Looking at the OSRIC downloads page, as I type this, there are currently 48379 downloaded copies of OSRIC out there. At least that many copies have been downloaded from the official site.

Now, I know, beyond a shadow of a doubt that not everyone who has downloaded OSRIC is playing it or even ever played it. I know this, because I'm one of them. I downloaded it to take a look, but, never played with it. So, I know this is true.

Now, how many OSRIC players are there out there? Who knows? I do know that the Dragonsfoot forums have about 6000 ish members, so that might be a good place to start. Obviously, again, this number is REALLY, REALLY rough.

Now, how many downloads did the free Pathfinder Beta garner? The only number I could find was from the Golariapedia - here, in the first paragraph that stated by the end of the playtest, 45000 copies had been downloaded.

Does that mean that Pathfinder is roughly the size of OSRIC? Well, I doubt it. And, considering Paizo sold out their first print run, I'd guess that probably the numbers are higher.

But, again, you've actually got comparible numbers to look at. Both the free versions of the games garnered about the same number of downloads.

Should we then conclude that Pathfinder is about as popular as OSRIC and other OSR games? Does that put it in the same category as things like Labyrinth Lord and Castles and Crusades?

Hey look, I found a snake!

This is just bizarre.

Have I EVER pointed at the free downloads of the Pathfinder beta as my evidence?

You are going back to the old stand by Hussar tactic and invented a really stupid straw man example and declaring that to be the point someone else has made despite there being zero truth to that claim.

If you want to actually talk about what I said, please do.

Just as one off the cuff example, that is not on the list of things I have actually cited, do you remember the photos of lines at the Paizo 2009 GenCon booth? Do you think those people were there for free downloads? Was there a similar line at the OSRIC booth?

And no, I don't think that GenCon 2009 proves the SLIGHTEST thing about split markets or how any game is doing today. That is not in any way my point. But it does demonstrate how out of touch your pointless claim about free downloads is.

 

[Fifth Element]

But that said, you were the one demanding proof, but now you can't even be bothered to be up to speed on the topics you are arguing?

No, I am demanding proof, and when asked you responded "It's in the thread." So I went back through all of your posts in the thread, and didn't see any specific proof, just claims and anecdotes. You claim there's solid evidence out there, but you can't show it to us. Where is it?

 

[Eridanis]

Everyone, please take a deep breath and think before posting aggrivated responses. Venting your spleen is no way to continue a conversation.

 

[JeffB]

When did this thread jump the shark?