Don't let the sword hit you on the way out!

[Water Bob]

I was thinking about the Attack of Opportunity a character gets when his foe leaves the character's threaten area.

Doesn't that seem bass aackwards?

Isn't it harder to charge up a hill than retreat from it?

Shouldn't it be harder to approach someone (who is expecting you) and land a blow on them that it would be to increase your distance from them?

It seems to me that AoOs should be given as foes ENTER the threatened space of a character, not the other way around.



If I'm fighting Mike Tyson, I think it would be hard to even approach him and begin the combat. But, if I were already in the combat, it seems a bit easier to retreat and put distance between us.



If the d20 rules allowed for an AoO as someone ENTERS a threatened space, then fighters would dance around each other, just out of melee range, looking for that particular hole in the foe's defenses in which to strike.

Boxers do this. Real life fighters do this. It seems to make a lot of sense and replicate real life.

Why do you think the d20 is to allow the AoO when leaving a threatened space instead of entering it?

 

[Dandu]

Players will be entering combat a lot more than retreating from it. Having AoOs set for when someone enters a threatened square might make things too hard on the PCs.

 

[Water Bob]

It seems to me more realistic and that it might lead to more stand-off's, with neither side willing to risk the AoO.

 

[Dandu]

That is another bad thing in a game revolving around the players going places and beating people up.

 

[Water Bob]

What you call a "bad thing" is another person's field of lovely simulation believeability.

I'm interested in the defense of the rule. Do you think it's more realistic to have the AoO coming into a threatened square or retreating from it?

 

[Dandu]

When discussing a game, I find it important for there to be good mechanics. Realism is added on later.

Much like a good house should have a solid foundation and excellent drywall.

 

[Keldryn]

Why do you think the d20 is to allow the AoO when leaving a threatened space instead of entering it?

This is a nod to how older versions of the game handled breaking off from melee and retreating.

In AD&D, once engaged in melee combat, breaking off allows the opponent a free attack (or entire attack routine if applicable, e.g. claw/claw/bite), calculated as an attack to the rear (no shield or Dex bonus). After the free attack is resolved, the combatant may move at his full movement rate.

In B/X and BECMI, to withdraw from combat at his full movement rate, the combatant must forfeit his attack and grant his opponents a +2 bonus on attack rolls (equivalent to a rear attack). A fighting retreat allows him to continue to make attacks, but he may only move at half of his movement rate (revised to 5' per round in the Rules Cyclopedia).

I think that the AD&D 2e Combat & Tactics book introduced Attacks of Opportunity in very much the same form as they appeared in 3e, but I don't have that book anymore and I don't remember the details.

It's also a playability issue... provoking an AoO when entering a threatened square would discourage anybody from initiating melee combat, make missile weapons too desirable, and make combat take even longer to play out.

In an abstract combat system, it isn't very realistic anyway. Both opponents would generally be approaching one another at the same time, looking for an opening. It's not as if one opponent is just standing still in a melee while the other advances.

 

[jonesy]

I don't get why you would think that retreating is easier than advancing. If you retreat with your back to your enemy you can't see what he is doing and can't react to it. And if you are retreating with your back away from your enemy you are giving him the advantage in reaction time (and hitting power).

In boxing there's a thing called pursuit stance where you move after a retreating enemy to keep them in striking distance.

 

[Michael Silverbane]

If you retreat with your back to your enemy you can't see what he is doing and can't react to it. And if you are retreating with your back away from your enemy you are giving him the advantage in reaction time (and hitting power).

There is also a real-life psychological component... When you retreat from or flee from combat, you go from 'opponent' to 'prey' which tends to make your enemy become more confident and aggressive.

 

[Jimlock]

i just wanted to drop in and say how i love watching a "Dandu vs WB" thing going on...



With sincere respect for both,

Jimlock





PS: AoOs are fine as they are IMO.