Essentials multiclassing playtest?

[Zaphling]

Why would you want to?

Essentially, you're asking to multiclass two forms of a paladin. These forms are like night and day. Cavaliers gravitate towards good. Blackguards gravitate towards evil. In a sense, it would be like a warlock having two different pacts (i.e. infernal and fey).

I guess I'm having difficulty seeing how a character can represent both a virtue and a vice.

Hear hear.

 

[Wednesday Boy]

The pact blade at-wills can be used as MBA's though, which to me would imply that Attack Finesse would function as normal for them. It's kinda like how Bracers of Mighty Striking still provide a +2 damage bonus to the pact blade at-wills.

I see what you're getting at but the difference between Attack Finesse and the Bracers of Mighty Striking is that the Bracers only refers to MBAs. They don't refer to Str and MBAs like Attack Finesse does. I think you might have a solid argument if the pact blade at-wills were Str based instead of Cha based or if Attack Finesse said you could use Dex for your MBAs and didn't specify Str.

 

[interwyrm]

Why would you want to?

Essentially, you're asking to multiclass two forms of a paladin. These forms are like night and day. Cavaliers gravitate towards good. Blackguards gravitate towards evil. In a sense, it would be like a warlock having two different pacts (i.e. infernal and fey).

I guess I'm having difficulty seeing how a character can represent both a virtue and a vice.

You're not trying hard enough. Most traditional virtues are associated with a vice if taken to an extreme.

Pride and hubris.
Love and lust.
Zeal and fury.
Valor and bloodthirst.

 

[renau1g]

Why would you want to?

Essentially, you're asking to multiclass two forms of a paladin. These forms are like night and day. Cavaliers gravitate towards good. Blackguards gravitate towards evil. In a sense, it would be like a warlock having two different pacts (i.e. infernal and fey).

I guess I'm having difficulty seeing how a character can represent both a virtue and a vice.

He wants to make a real True Neutral PC

 

[OnlineDM]

You're not trying hard enough. Most traditional virtues are associated with a vice if taken to an extreme.

Pride and hubris.
Love and lust.
Zeal and fury.
Valor and bloodthirst.

I'm starting to learn about Pathfinder, and one of the links I was given to read about the game talked about the Runelords in that setting. Apparently they were exactly this - intended to be the embodiment of virtues but corrupted to become the embodiment of the corresponding vices (in their case, the seven deadly sins).

 

[mneme]

Cavaliers gravitate towards good. Blackguards gravitate towards evil. In a sense, it would be like a warlock having two different pacts (i.e. infernal and fey).

So, paragon, then?

Twofold PactParagon Tier
Prerequisite: 11th level, Eldritch Pact class feature
Benefit: You gain a second Eldritch Pact. You gain the at-will spell and pact boon of that pact. You can use only one of your pact boon benefits at a time, however.

(huh. didn't realize they fixed Twofold Pact a year ago).

Seriously, I don't see that this is a justification. Mechanically, you can make a vampire cleric, or in Darksun, a wizard druid defiler. Contradictory class/race/subclass patterns can be justified or ignored, or their contraditction can be leveraged into something interesting.

I think the best explaination for why you can't take the same class as hybrid is that it throws off the balance inherent with hybrid. Normally, hybrid characters are required to take at least one power in every category from each class -- even if they don't want to. But a hybrid paladin/paladin could take any powers she wanted. Also, it's silly.

 

[Luinnar]

Does the Sentinel Druid get a power swap feat like the Thief and Slayer did in a previous article?

 

[Neverfate]

Why would you want to?

Essentially, you're asking to multiclass two forms of a paladin. These forms are like night and day. Cavaliers gravitate towards good. Blackguards gravitate towards evil. In a sense, it would be like a warlock having two different pacts (i.e. infernal and fey).

I guess I'm having difficulty seeing how a character can represent both a virtue and a vice.

I only look at character from a mechanical aspect (dice, numbers, abilities). Not a fluff aspect. Or even power source. I can come up with all of that on my own. Who's to say this wouldn't generate a character that is true to his friends and ruthless to his enemies? Also, there's already a paragon feat to take two pacts. In fact it's called Two-Fold Pact. It's an insanely good feat mechanically speaking. You can fluff it however you want (to this day I haven't played a Warlock that actually made a pact. Just an student of the arcane who makes things hurt more than a Wizard).

So. . . anyway; What're we sending in our email to WotC? Does anyone think the Cavalier multi-class feat is ridiculously good? Permanent Defender Aura: yay or nay?

 

[interwyrm]

So. . . anyway; What're we sending in our email to WotC? Does anyone think the Cavalier multi-class feat is ridiculously good? Permanent Defender Aura: yay or nay?

Timid yay. It's got marginal utility since there is no punishment and it's not that hard to get out of it. I'd probably mostly use it on a permanently invisible wizard or the like.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Timid yay. It's got marginal utility since there is no punishment and it's not that hard to get out of it. I'd probably mostly use it on a permanently invisible wizard or the like.

For sheer "that shouldn't work" mayhem I was thinking of using one on a Star Pact Binder with a Starshadow Blade. The goal is perma-invisibility, a Defender Aura, and a decent weapon to exploit opportunity attacks. Not sure how it would work in play - but it really leverages that invisibility boon.