Dealing with logical but gamebreaking requests

[Ravilah]

I had a party of PCs who kept asking for help from every NPC they came across, "Can you send a contingent of city guards with us?" "Can some of your wizards enter the cave too?" "Hey, why doesn't this priest come along? It's his daughter we're rescuing!"

But that stopped the day that the nine surviving city guards wanted an equal share of the goblin's loot. "Let's see, 500gp divided by thirteen..."

 

[Havrik Stoneskimmer]

The simple fact is this: Unless you are a genius and your players are morons then it's nearly certain that the group of them is smarter than the one of you.

[...]

This leads me to mention one of my favorite GM resources, too often underutilized, which can help you out of these jams: The bathroom.

When in doubt, go to the bathroom.

Your post had me laughing, mostly because it's completely true but I never really thought about it like that.

I probably should take advantage of bathroom breaks but I was already feeling awkward about stalling the game out while I searched the online compendium for rituals to see what might reasonably be available to them.

 

[the Jester]

Two things:

1. I don't tie pc level to resources very strongly. If there's a logical reason why they should have access to resources typically thought of as 'above their level,' fine by me. Conversely, if they don't have 'assumed wealth and magic items' for their level- fine by me.

2. Does this university even have a sage capable of casting 10th level rituals? Do those guys grow on trees? IMC, they prolly would respond to the request with, "We'll let you use our books to cast the ritual if you can do it, but we don't have that kind of power."

 

[TarionzCousin]

We had this happen in a game many years ago. As the DM I went into so much minutia of running a business and competitors and everything that no one thinks goes into running ones business that for a while it looked like the campaign was going to be about that. And then the other players stepped it. They thought it was boring and stupid to do so they basically revolted and told him that if that's what he wanted to do then they were leaving him.

I once had a player tell the group "PC's go on adventures; NPC's go into business!"

 

[S'mon]

Your post had me laughing, mostly because it's completely true but I never really thought about it like that.

I probably should take advantage of bathroom breaks but I was already feeling awkward about stalling the game out while I searched the online compendium for rituals to see what might reasonably be available to them.

I don't use computers at the table for exactly this reason. Much better to tell the players: "They have access to arcane PHB rituals up to 10th level... You *did* bring your PHB, right?"

 

[ExploderWizard]

His extreme 3e technical proficiency did not extend to noticing that a scroll of clw is 25gp/pop, with a 12.5gp production cost; that a clw potion is 50gp and 50 clws on a wand are 750gp, and therefore nobody would ever pay 100gp for a single casting?

Heh. The potion is the killer. The wand and scroll are useless without the skills of an adventurer to use them but the potion has the advantage of being portable as well as having the same effect for half the price.

 

[Kzach]

As a fairly strategic player, I always tend to look for this kind of stuff.

I read this as, "I'm always looking for holes in the the DM's logic so that I can ruin the fun for everyone at the table."

Seriously, what NEED is there for you to point such things out? What purpose does it serve? A DM is not an infallible, omniscient god, of course they're not going to think of every conceivable possibility and of course there are going to be gaping holes in their logic every now and then and on top of all of that, not giving them the leeway to say, "Because there wouldn't be an adventure," is pretty damn harsh; do you expect to be put on the spot like that and every minute detail of your adventures questioned and examined for holes and have perfect answers every time a question is asked?

 

[NewJeffCT]

A DM is not an infallible, omniscient god,

They're not?

 

[Rel]

I read this as, "I'm always looking for holes in the the DM's logic so that I can ruin the fun for everyone at the table."

Of course you did.

Seriously, what NEED is there for you to point such things out? What purpose does it serve? A DM is not an infallible, omniscient god, of course they're not going to think of every conceivable possibility and of course there are going to be gaping holes in their logic every now and then and on top of all of that, not giving them the leeway to say, "Because there wouldn't be an adventure," is pretty damn harsh; do you expect to be put on the spot like that and every minute detail of your adventures questioned and examined for holes and have perfect answers every time a question is asked?

I never said that I wouldn't go along with the adventure if that's the way it was presented to me. I said that it was disappointing to me as a player if the more obvious questions had been given no consideration. The purpose that it serves it that, if the NPCs are supposedly smart and have apparently used whatever resources they already possess, it makes them more believable to me and assists my ability to engage in the campaign setting.

In the situation described in the OP, where stuff is missing from a University full of sages, I'd think it would be obvious that a player might want to ask them some questions. They're in the business of knowing stuff so I think it is obvious that somebody might inquire as to what they know about a situation important to them. My question to the NPC would not be, "Have you used your sagely powers to discover all the answers and therefore not need our party for this adventure?" My question would be, "Have you used your sagely powers to discover any information that might be helpful to us as we pursue your goal of recovering what was stolen?"

I'll further point out that this is a very group specific situation (as are nearly all the situations discussed regarding RPGs). There are plenty of GMs out there, myself among them, where if the PC's undertook the mission without looking for any available information from the NPCs that they'd be missing vital clues. So, in regards to your snarky and disdainful question about what I expect my players to ask me, I don't anticipate every question they might ask. I simply try my best to anticipate the more obvious ones.

 

[Havrik Stoneskimmer]

I don't use computers at the table for exactly this reason. Much better to tell the players: "They have access to arcane PHB rituals up to 10th level... You *did* bring your PHB, right?"

Generally I only use the laptop for background music! We pretty much play from Heroes of the Fallen Lands right now, so I actually didn't have my PHB nearby. I might start though, because I am thinking I'd like to introduce rituals into the game for the PCs, as opposed to the occasional NPC ritual casting that we've had so far (e.g., Comprehend Language). I think it will add some interesting new options and roleplaying opportunities without adding any extra complexity to combats.