Would you pay to play?

[Umbran]

If I go to a movie, they've done all the work for me. I can sit back, relax, and enjoy. I can even choose to go to the older-run movies at the cheap theater for $3 or check out first run movies on Sunday morning for $5 or even the double-feature at the drive-in - a 2-for-1 deal - to save money.

I noted that what you pay for movies depends upon location. You're in Wisconsin? Well, here in the Boston metro area, there's no such thing as a $3 cheap theater, or $5 matinee. Double features are special events, not regular offerings. Full price here is $8 to $10. Matinees and second-run theaters are over $6.

It looks like that $5 is for indeterminate time. So, you can use it for a 4-hour session. That's a whopping $1.25 per hour for entertainment. Even your $3 cheap theater is still more expensive, per hour.

And the "I have to work for it" seems a bit of a strawman - if you enjoy RPGs, you already accept that the opportunity to be active in your entertainment is a selling point, not a cost.

 

[Jacob Marley]

I am not so sure that many people understand exactly how much retail/commercial space really costs. I own a retail/commercial building (3 floors; approximately 20,000 square feet total) about 25 miles outside of the Twin Cities. Yearly operating expenses (cleaning, garbage, lawncare, taxes, utilities, etc.) for fiscal year 2010 cost $7.86 per square foot. Mortgage payments on the property (I am less than 50% LTV) were $2.22 per square foot. Improvements and major item repairs (repairs to a heat pump, repairs to the drain tile system) were $0.79 per square foot. In addition, I charge each tenant between $3.00 and $5.00 per square foot (depending on which floor they rent). This means that on our main level (the retail level) the average tenent is paying between $15.75 and $16.00 per square foot to rent. Competing properties in my area are even higher than this!

Now, $16.00 a square foot may not seem like much, but consider that many game shops devote 10-25% (or more!) of thier floor space to playing games. That translates into multiple thousands of dollars in rent. (Not to mention what it takes to pay salaries and wages!) Offering $50 yearly memberships to access that space seems awfully resonable to me.

 

[fba827]

Does the game store have the right to charge for use of their space? Absolutely! And it's an entirely reasonable request.

Would I (personally) pay for it? A variety of factors come in to play such as the environment, the game, etc. But more than likely I would not.

Therefore if the decision makes "business sense" really depends on the views of their target audience.

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

Short answer:
I'd pay the fee if the service or entertainment provided was worth the $5, to me.

Longer answer:
I think it's reasonable for a store to charge for use of its space; retail space is valuable. However, if I'm paying, I'd expect the space to offer something of value beyond the typical dining room table at someone's house. If the space is cramped, noisy, dirty, poorly lit, et cetera, then it's highly unlikely that I'd find it worth the money. One possible offset for that is the store location. If it's centrally located and convenient for the group, then that might add some significant value to the mix. Other possible variables are things like a gridded tabletop or big battlemats, food options (including nearby restaurants), white board availability, nice chairs, et cetera.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Exactly.

Free space is provided by many a community rec centre, YMCA, YWCA, and university/college campus. Of course, then you also get whatever inconvenience comes from those spaces.....but, hey!...dems da breaks!

RC

 

[billd91]

I noted that what you pay for movies depends upon location. You're in Wisconsin? Well, here in the Boston metro area, there's no such thing as a $3 cheap theater, or $5 matinee. Double features are special events, not regular offerings. Full price here is $8 to $10. Matinees and second-run theaters are over $6.

Full price here is $8-10 as well (more for 3D) and most matinees are about $6 as well (aside from the sunday mornings). But there are theaters who cater to different segments of the market - successfully.

It looks like that $5 is for indeterminate time. So, you can use it for a 4-hour session. That's a whopping $1.25 per hour for entertainment. Even your $3 cheap theater is still more expensive, per hour.

And as I mentioned before, $5 for 3 hours seems a bit rich to me. Indeterminate time would be much more acceptable.

And the "I have to work for it" seems a bit of a strawman - if you enjoy RPGs, you already accept that the opportunity to be active in your entertainment is a selling point, not a cost.

Oh, I don't think it's a bit of a straw man. I already invest in prep time (labor), my materials, gas to get there, how great is my incentive to invest money play at the store? I'm going to consider all of these together including the expected positives and other negatives of gaming at the store when determining whether it's worth it to play there.

 

[frankthedm]

Besides the fact I'd have to be payed to run 4E

5 bucks a a person just for play space? That! For that kind of money the group should just pay a few more bucks and spring for a cheap hotel room.

Throw a board over the bed for a table, and there you go.

As a bonus the PCs will be able to score free XP off of Roach minions who enter the battlemat!

 

[Mallus]

Not really, nor are the costs of gaming space really all that comparable to a swimming pool.

Didn't mean to suggest they were -- it was just an example of a place where you pay to make your own fun (that was the odd part of your argument).

... I'll be heading home for a quieter game environment where I have all my ample resources quick at hand and can drink beer while I play (often not an option playing game stores).

If you already have a private place to game (and drink beer!), then you aren't the customer the game shop should be targeting. You shouldn't factor into their pricing equation. They can't offer you something better than you already have, regardless of price.

5 bucks a a person just for play space? That! For that kind of money the group should just pay a few more bucks and spring for a cheap hotel room.

I don't think cheap hotels exist around my way, you're talking around $100, give or take. That $5 is now $20... and it's not the roaches you have to worry about, it's the bedbug minions!

 

[El Mahdi]

Would you pay to play?

NO!​

Gameplay in a gamestore should only ever be done in order to promote the game, products, and to get people in for the random purchase. If the store isn't making money selling product, to the point where they need to charge for gameplay, then something is wrong with the store itself.​

Yeah, yeah - it's hard having a brick and mortar store in the internet age.​

Get over it!​

Not every brick and mortar store has folded because of online sales. Find out what those stores that have thrived are doing, and emulate.​

Adapt and Overcome.​

But I will not only not pay to play in a store, I will not patron a store that requires this.​

We don't need gamestores, we want gamestores. Keep turning your stores into environments where we don't want to be, and we will more and more choose the alternatives. Alternatives which are simpler and usually cheaper.​

Gamestores wonder why they're having such a hard time keeping customers or having a good relationship with customers, it's because of crap like this.​

Blame the internet...Blame the game companies...Blame the customers...Blame the state of the hobby...​

It won't change the fact that the only one to blame, is the gamestore owner you see staring back at you from the mirror...​

I'm voting with my feet. We don't need you.​

​

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I am not so sure that many people understand exactly how much retail/commercial space really costs. I own a retail/commercial building (3 floors; approximately 20,000 square feet total) about 25 miles outside of the Twin Cities. Yearly operating expenses (cleaning, garbage, lawncare, taxes, utilities, etc.) for fiscal year 2010 cost $7.86 per square foot. Mortgage payments on the property (I am less than 50% LTV) were $2.22 per square foot. Improvements and major item repairs (repairs to a heat pump, repairs to the drain tile system) were $0.79 per square foot. In addition, I charge each tenant between $3.00 and $5.00 per square foot (depending on which floor they rent). This means that on our main level (the retail level) the average tenent is paying between $15.75 and $16.00 per square foot to rent. Competing properties in my area are even higher than this!

Now, $16.00 a square foot may not seem like much, but consider that many game shops devote 10-25% (or more!) of thier floor space to playing games. That translates into multiple thousands of dollars in rent. (Not to mention what it takes to pay salaries and wages!) Offering $50 yearly memberships to access that space seems awfully resonable to me.

And don't forget, some of that space is by necessity going to have to be empty- you need to be able to walk around, after all. So if your store needs to turn $10/sq foot/month to cover costs, and you need 25% of your space for aisles and non-productive uses, that means the remainder has to produce $12.50/sq foot/month, just for breakeven.

If you then set aside 100sq feet for a gaming space in that store, that space will have to produce a minimum of $1250/month. At $5/gamer, that's 250 players per month in that space. If they only get gamers on the weekends, thats 32 gamers on the 4 Saturdays & Sundays- far too many for only 100sq feet of space. Even if they get gamers every day, that's still 8 gamers per day in that space.

So I'm thinking $5 gamer isn't that bad at all.

The numbers get a bit better if the admission price is for a limited 3 hour time slot, but not much. Since people have jobs and other things in their lives, I'd doubt that most game stores' game spaces see more than 4-5 hours of actual use, probably more towards the end of the day.