Please read: ENW policy regarding molestation, rape, and other such discussion

[StreamOfTheSky]

Guess I'll be the one to disagree. I don't really know what the specifics of this "new policy" mean, and what the boundaries are (mentioning that evil people in your game commit rape? very lightly/generally mentioning how they do it, such as through physical force vs. date rape? and so on...) but I don't like the sound of it. It's a fantasy game and includes monsters/NPCs that are literally evil incarnate, and even the good aligned folks base their adventures around killing (bad) people and taking their stuff.

Doesn't seem prudent to me, seems puritanical. But ultimately it doesn't affect me really at all to not talk about rape, so I don't really care. And I'm well aware I hold the minority opinion on this...

 

[Alzrius]

I'm completely in agreement with StreamOfTheSky on this. This new policy strikes me as unnecessary and more trouble than its worth.

I didn't see the offending thread in question, but I was under the implication that any graphic discussion/description of rape or other sexual assault was already forbidden under the more general Eric's Grandma rule. Rape is a form of sexual assault, and the aforementioned rule already prohibited anything too sexual from being discussed on EN World.

Piratecat mentioned the ratio of women who are raped (presumably in the United States) during their college years; an abhorrently-high one out of every five. That's beyond horrible, but according to the FBI statistics for violent crime in America in the year 2009, almost ten times as many people will be the victim of aggravated assault. And yet here we revel in a game about killing things and taking their stuff.

Yes, sexual crimes are particularly heinous, but I see a strong dividing line between fantasy and reality, and don't consider that discussing something in the context of a game to have any moral or ethical implications in the real world. Fantasy violence is, quite simply, no big deal to us. Making fantasy sexual violence - particularly when it's almost never discussed here in detail - into some sort ill-defined taboo seems like it will create more problems than it solves.

There's a demigod of rape in the Book of Erotic Fantasy - can I not discuss him at all? R. A. Salvatori's book Road of the Patriarch implies that Artemis Entreri was raped/molested by his uncle as a child; is that never to be spoken of here? Is all discussion of Thomas Covenant to be forbidden forever?

I respect EN World's moderators greatly; they've done a fine job of keeping this site from degenerating, like so many other bulletin boards, into a pit of vitriol. But anything can be taken too far, and I think this is the first step in that direction.

 

[Stoutfish]

I personally feel the members of this board are mature enough to discuss these topics in an academic matter. However, if you feel a few bad apples can not, then I suppose I can accept this new policy.

 

[Darwinism]

I'm completely in agreement with StreamOfTheSky on this. This new policy strikes me as unnecessary and more trouble than its worth.

I didn't see the offending thread in question, but I was under the implication that any graphic discussion/description of rape or other sexual assault was already forbidden under the more general Eric's Grandma rule. Rape is a form of sexual assault, and the aforementioned rule already prohibited anything too sexual from being discussed on EN World.

Piratecat mentioned the ratio of women who are raped (presumably in the United States) during their college years; an abhorrently-high one out of every five. That's beyond horrible, but according to the FBI statistics for violent crime in America in the year 2009, almost ten times as many people will be the victim of aggravated assault. And yet here we revel in a game about killing things and taking their stuff.

Yes, sexual crimes are particularly heinous, but I see a strong dividing line between fantasy and reality, and don't consider that discussing something in the context of a game to have any moral or ethical implications in the real world. Fantasy violence is, quite simply, no big deal to us. Making fantasy sexual violence - particularly when it's almost never discussed here in detail - into some sort ill-defined taboo seems like it will create more problems than it solves.

There's a demigod of rape in the Book of Erotic Fantasy - can I not discuss him at all? R. A. Salvatori's book Road of the Patriarch implies that Artemis Entreri was raped/molested by his uncle as a child; is that never to be spoken of here? Is all discussion of Thomas Covenant to be forbidden forever?

I respect EN World's moderators greatly; they've done a fine job of keeping this site from degenerating, like so many other bulletin boards, into a pit of vitriol. But anything can be taken too far, and I think this is the first step in that direction.

Oh man good troll, way to mockingly defend horrible people's 'right' to romanticize rape

The BoEF and Salvatore references really sealed it, mentioning two of the worst things to happen to fantasy writing = priceless

Oh and if you weren't trolling and this is actually your really sheltered opinion: fantasy is, indeed, about romanticized violence. But against non-specific targets; it's when you're like FATAL and sub in black people for orcs and broadly state that all women are totally asking for it that you're terrible, not when you're slaughtering X or Y or Z always chaotic evil monster.

 

[Umbran]

Oh man good troll, way to mockingly defend horrible people's 'right' to romanticize rape

Okay, in a thread about the rules and proper behavior on the boards, having to make this note is dreadfully ironic.

If you think someone is a troll, please report it and then leave it alone. Going head to head gives a troll what he or she wants, you know. And if he isn't a troll, you just insulted someone and gave grounds for argument.

In general, while feedback on policy is welcome, don't think that we'll accept you folks arguing with each other in this thread. Expect that all the mods are going to be reading this, so you need to be on your best behavior, folks.

 

[Piratecat]

We're not going to debate this, guys. It's not going to impact 99% of people on this site, mostly because they're already wise enough to use good common sense when posting. And it's okay if you disagree with me, but it isn't optional.

 

[Darwinism]

The problem with rape as a serious topic is that it merits serious thought and an extremely thoughtful and mature environment, not a scene where anyone is free to just put forth their interpretations of it like "if she enjoys it it's not rape," so unless you can guarantee people will treat it as such it's much better off as a topic left unexplored.

That's it. There's no, "But you see this fiction I like treats rape super seriously can't I brag about that," and there's no, "but you see X crime is more common so rape is obviously the lesser crime."

 

[Stoutfish]

The problem with rape as a serious topic is that it merits serious thought and an extremely thoughtful and mature environment, not a scene where anyone is free to just put forth their interpretations of it like "if she enjoys it it's not rape," so unless you can guarantee people will treat it as such it's much better off as a topic left unexplored.

That's it. There's no, "But you see this fiction I like treats rape super seriously can't I brag about that," and there's no, "but you see X crime is more common so rape is obviously the lesser crime."

Yes, but you see, your post was quite hostile and would not lead to any logical discussion. It's quite ironic that your intentions are really no better then justifying rape like you so mentioned.

Mod Edit: I warned folks to be on best behavior. So, Stoutfish here won't be taking part in the rest of this conversation. Don't get personal, folks. ~Umbran

 

[Darwinism]

Yes, but you see, your post was quite hostile and would not lead to any logical discussion. It's quite ironic that your intentions are really no better then justifying rape like you so mentioned.

Are you honestly equating being snarky to being just as bad as justifying rape?

Wow.

 

[Hunter99]

A responsible decision on the part of Enworld moderators.

Anyone who tries to justify rape is a very bad man and should be censured.