Gender, Settings, Mechanics, and Everything Else

[S'mon]

There are 3 billion plus human women; there are no elves. Because of that, when a human player runs an elf character, there is no concept of "doing it wrong", it's all just about interpretation. But when a male player portrays a female character (or vice versa), this same is not true.

Huh. If you didn't know they were female you'd probably think my wife & half the female gamers I've played with were 'doing it wrong' when they played themselves.

 

[Whisper72]

Huh. If you didn't know they were female you'd probably think my wife & half the female gamers I've played with were 'doing it wrong' when they played themselves.

Muahaha.. good point. The real world is already very pluriform, and that even within one country, let alone across the world... there is no 'one right way' to even BE a male or female, let alone 'one right way' to play one in a fictional world...

To get back on topic / the OP's question,

When I DM, my worlds are usually very vast and extremely diverse. As such, there are bound to be area's / nations / continents where womenfolk are not sailors, because of some superstitious belief (maybe not so superstitious, maybe the local God of the Sea has a thing against women, and so there are real accidents that befall ships with women sailors, who knows...), but in the same world, there will be other nations / area's where it is not an issue.

As such, yes gender plays a role. Also, this role / the effects should be known to the players beforehand if it has impact on the choices of their characters. If players insist on going against the flow (I will not forbid them to do so, as many stated in previous posts, adventurers often break the norm and are the exceptions that prove the rule etc.), then they do so knowing fully what they are getting into. If they seek the roleplaying challenge, then so be it.

That said, gender mainly plays a role then in terms of 'fluff'. I will not limit PC's in their choices or stats based on the gender they play, but will demand (as I do for any gender and role / set of stats chosen by any player) some form of 'sense'. I.e. a petite female with 18 strength isn't gonna fly, but then, neither is a bookish small male with 18 strength...

Also, since most of my campaigns center around lots of travel / discovering the world, being in an area where one type of PC is playing a gender, class or race that is the focus of suspicion / discrimination, this is usually only an issue during a relatively short period of time, as the action moves on quickly enough...

Just my two CP...

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

A quick glance into a fantasy book shows that they aren't really portrayed as such. Characters like Drizzt Do'urden and Bruenor Battlehammer wouldn't be well loved if we couldn't identify with them. Elves, Dwarves, Orcs, etc. are all just human in personality with certain aspects of their personality exaggerated.

I agree about the literature- looking beyong JRRT or D&D fiction, you find remarkably human species all over Sci-Fi and fantasy, from the great names of the genre, like Asimov, Niven, Cherryh, Brin, Bear and so forth.*

On the surface, at least.

But again, when you go beyond that surface and really analyze what is written there, you begin to see the deep differences their minds MUST have to live the way they do. Even the miners of Coober Peady see more sunlight than most Dwarves, and welcome it.






* Some of those- Asimov most notably- have written little forwards to their stories of their truly alien beings about how and why the author is presenting such beings in such a human fashion. Namely, to keep them accessible to the reader.

 

[delericho]

Huh. If you didn't know they were female you'd probably think my wife & half the female gamers I've played with were 'doing it wrong' when they played themselves.

Quite possibly. I recall finding Thandie Newton's performance in "How to Lose Friends and Alienate People" very unconvincing, and she was playing 'herself'. And a lot of performances of male characters in sitcoms and particularly rom-coms just don't ring true to me.

It's also true that there are some portrayals that may seem valid when presented by an 'insider' that would be deemed offensive (or just ring wrong) when presented by an 'outsider'.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I think stat differences for PCs are just wrong. I'm a fan of A Song of Ice and Fire, and it's a fairly realistic setting, with medieval-style sexism.

A few women in that setting are warriors. Arya Stark (a child who has taken swordfighting lessons, and ... let's just say she's killed more than one person), Mrs. Reed (I can't remember her first name; her culture promotes female warriors), Yrgitte (as Mrs. Reed), Asha Greyjoy (as Mrs. Reed), several from Dorne (as Mrs. Reed) ... and Brienne of Tarth. The latter comes from the "mainline" culture, has the strength of a man, refuses to stop wearing armor, and has somehow gotten sword training. She's really good at it too, even defeating a male member of the Kingsguard! Many male characters have said horribly sexist things about her like "she needs to be raped".

IMO, if you can't play a character like that, you're doing something wrong. The setting made it difficult, but not impossible, and realistically dealt with the effects of being such a stand-out.

I also think giving female humans lower Strength scores than male elves to be ... weird.

 

[Mallus]

To my recollection, none of my groups have ever had a problem with cross-gender play. In our current Savage Worlds game, we have two 40+ year old guys playing, respectively, a gorgeous Space Valkyrie and a chain-smoking tween girl engineer --and someone else plays a genocidal pest control robot, but that's neither here nor there.

In out sadly halted (canceled?) supers game, I played a 14 year-old Latino boy from Los Angeles, though I am none of those things. The whole point of these kinds of games is to adopt the persona of someone else. It's not hard. You don't need to be convincing. Just show a little respect, eh?

(though I suspect people not inclined to show respect/accord dignity to others will probably continue to do so, not matter how many character types you bar them from playing)

 

[Dark Mistress]

Um.....really? Could you explain more please?

I haven't allowed cross-gender role play because I know seeing my friend with a beard playing a female pc, or my friend that is a girl playing a male pc would constantly break my personal immersion. When I have to cross gender as a DM I can see that it begins to for my players as well. I've had wimpy male PCs in my games, I've had 20 STR at level 1 Female PCs, and I've also had NPCs like that. Just because I'd prefer to not have a male play a female character doesn't mean I have a psych issue.

I even gave it a try once, one of my good friends is homosexual and felt he could identify more with a female character than a male one, and even though he did a good job portraying the character, it was always his baritone voice speaking for the slight female wizard.

I don't get how this is different than the 6' 200 pound guy playing a little halfling, or the 140 pound 5'4" guy playing a huge half-orc. how is the immersion broken in worse or less when they look nothing at all like their PC's.

Just asking cause I honestly just don't really get the immersion thing. I mean no one looks like a elf either.

 

[Elf Witch]

I don't have an issue with cross gender if it is done well. I have a friend who is a female but prefers to play male characters. I prefer she play them too. Its weird all her female characters drive me crazy they are simpering fools waiting fro a strong man.

Her male PCs are interesting and fun. Her husband often plays female PCs and he is good at them. They run the gamut from the tough warrior ala Xena to the more feminine bard ala Gabrielle.

My roommate plays males as well as she does females.

As for gender difference in games it really depends on the setting.

For example I have an ancient Greek setting. There are some gender limitations. Amazons are woman. Some of the different gods have only one gender as priests.

I think gender differences can help add to the world as long as they are not done in a way that limits enough choices of PCs and the PCs don't face blatant sexism every session.

I think gender only prestige classes are kind of a cool idea.

But I don't really like the idea of gender feats that usually starts to feel to much like stereotyping. I have yet to see gender feats ever done well.

I am very opposed to imposing any kind of gender stat modifications on PCs. If you want your NPCs to be more real world realistic say in strength then go for it but don't limited you PCs.

 

[Pheonix0114]

Its not looks, its voice for me more than anything. My players ham it up a bit, deepening or raising their voices to more closely fit their character's size and persona. But at the end of the day most males CAN'T sound like a female and most females CAN'T sound like a male. I can substitute appearance fairly easily, I'm having to imagine the fight or the town or w/e anyway, but when they talk in character I can't imagine their voices as anything different. If that some how makes me "bad at roleplay" as many of you have seemingly suggested I apologize, but I don't believe that I am.

 

[JamesonCourage]

Its not looks, its voice for me more than anything. My players ham it up a bit, deepening or raising their voices to more closely fit their character's size and persona. But at the end of the day most males CAN'T sound like a female and most females CAN'T sound like a male. I can substitute appearance fairly easily, I'm having to imagine the fight or the town or w/e anyway, but when they talk in character I can't imagine their voices as anything different. If that some how makes me "bad at roleplay" as many of you have seemingly suggested I apologize, but I don't believe that I am.

I don't understand people's objection to this, either. Our minds have seen both males and females interact thousands upon thousands of times, to varying degrees. We've only seen elves or the like interact in fantasy movies, or heard them interact in audio books or the like. The rest of the time, it's purely imagination, when reading about them.

We're used to imagining elves. We used to seeing or hearing women. When our real life stimulus is therefore visual or audio, it makes sense that a lot of people will make a mental connection with what they've actually experienced with those senses. This makes it harder to immerse for some people when there's cross-gender characters.

I do understand that other players don't have this issue, but to brush off this reasoning seems unreasonable. To me, at least. Yes, it takes a great deal of imagination and suspension of disbelief if the guy in front of you is playing as a demon or an elf or whatever. That's true. But, for some people, it's a lot harder when the genders cross.

"Let It Be" by the Beatles always reminds me of something. It doesn't remind you of that (if it reminds you of anything). That's because my mind has made a connection with that song and another subject, so interaction with the song or the subject instantly reminds me of the other. I don't see how it's much different with cross-gender roles.

Now, I don't think the immersion breaking reason is bad enough that I'd deny someone playing a cross-gender role, but I do have one specific criteria that must be met. And you know what? As long as my group is supportive of it and it fits our social contract, that's what we should stick with, in my opinion.

Just my thoughts on the matter. As always, play what you like