D&D 4E Some questions about 4e

[S'mon]

The characters aren't spinning around like tops, but they are looking around to maintain situational awareness.

Which apparently works fine in a pitch-black room.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Which apparently works fine in a pitch-black room.

Unless they have darkvision, they would be granting combat advantage and striking at -5 due to everything having total concealment against them.

Of course, they can orient by noise (at -10 Perception for being deaf, that would be difficult if that comes up too).

The bad guys should be using Stealth in this situation, even if they're not trained in it, are wearing heavy armor and carrying clanking shields. (The Hidden Club has a great example of that. The victim is deaf, standing next to a waterfall, and the attacker is invisible... and there are other conditions making the victim essentially helpless. The attacker is still "seen", but with the giant bonuses they're getting to Stealth they won't fail even if they could "take 0".)

 

[Neonchameleon]

Which apparently works fine in a pitch-black room.

Other than the superior concealment. You're telling me you wouldn't have a pretty good idea where someone wandering around in scale was in a pitch black room? It's only those actively sneaking that are nigh on impossible to get close to.

 

[S'mon]

Other than the superior concealment. You're telling me you wouldn't have a pretty good idea where someone wandering around in scale was in a pitch black room? It's only those actively sneaking that are nigh on impossible to get close to.

1. Not if a fight was going on.

2. More importantly, I wouldn't know where the walls, tables, and other inaminate objects were. But those silent, invisible objects cannot make a stealth check.

So if you actually apply the RAW without DM judgement, it simply doesn't work. There are times when perfect situational awareness just can't be assumed. Sometimes the DM has to require Perception checks in combat, even without an opposed Stealth check. Otherwise darkness is not darkness, invisible is not invisible, deaf is not deaf, etc etc etc. Which can work sometimes, but sometmes a character really is blind.

 

[S'mon]

The bad guys should be using Stealth in this situation, even if they're not trained in it, are wearing heavy armor and carrying clanking shields.

How about if the bad guy is just standing there in the pitch-black room, not moving, not doing anything, and certainly not actively hiding/stealthing? IMO there needs to be a default Perception DC for non-hiding/non-stealthing but non-visible opponents which is not based off their Stealth, as they are not Stealthing, just as the table in the middle of the darkened room is not Stealthing. It's just there.

To me this is a clear rules lacuna.

 

[FireLance]

Which apparently works fine in a pitch-black room.

When I'm DMing, I simply get around that problem by ensuring that the PCs never encounter a pitch-black room.

I mean, seriously: why waste brain power trying to think of corner cases where the rules don't work when you could put that effort into ensuring that the corner cases just don't show up in your games?

 

[S'mon]

When I'm DMing, I simply get around that problem by ensuring that the PCs never encounter a pitch-black room.

I mean, seriously: why waste brain power trying to think of corner cases where the rules don't work when you could put that effort into ensuring that the corner cases just don't show up in your games?

Great.

Edit: Blindness already has shown up in my games, obviously.

 

[thewok]

When I'm DMing, I simply get around that problem by ensuring that the PCs never encounter a pitch-black room.

Indeed. That's what sunrods (and Light cantrips) are for.

 

[FireLance]

Indeed. That's what sunrods (and Light cantrips) are for.

Not to mention conveniently-placed glowing fungi.

 

[FireLance]

Great.

Edit: Blindness already has shown up in my games, obviously.

Well, like you said:

Otherwise darkness is not darkness, invisible is not invisible, deaf is not deaf, etc etc etc.

When a PC is affected by the blinded condition, it's not total blindness either.

Which can work sometimes, but sometmes a character really is blind.

Yes, but in pretty much the same way that the PCs don't get their limbs hacked off in my games and don't become crippled or lame, the PCs don't ever become really blind, either.