Shadow _____ Spells and Metamagic feats

[TheNewt123]

Ok, this is pretty straightforward. Can you use (Greater) shadow evocation or conjuration to duplicate a spell with a metamagic feat. For example, use shadow evocation to duplicate an empowered scorching ray (effective 4th level spell).

 

[Jack Simth]

Ok, this is pretty straightforward. Can you use (Greater) shadow evocation or conjuration to duplicate a spell with a metamagic feat. For example, use shadow evocation to duplicate an empowered scorching ray (effective 4th level spell).

Technically? You can use Shadow Evocation to duplicate a Maximized, Empowered, Twinned, Split Ray, Chained, Energy Admixtured Scorching Ray, if you want.

The Reason:

As a spellcaster’s knowledge of magic grows, she can learn to cast spells in ways slightly different from the ways in which the spells were originally designed or learned. Preparing and casting a spell in such a way is harder than normal but, thanks to metamagic feats, at least it is possible. Spells modified by a metamagic feat use a spell slot higher than normal. This does not change the level of the spell, so the DC for saving throws against it does not go up.

(Emphasis added)

So for all that metamagic, it's still a 2nd level spell as far as the rules are concerned (although making scrolls has their own rules). Of course, your DM should quite rightly say "I'm invoking rule 0 here" or similar when (s)he sees this.

Now, if they'd instead said "A metamagiced spell is considered to be a higher-level spell for all purposes except save DC", that'd be a different story. But that's not what they put down.

 

[the Jester]

Now, if they'd instead said "A metamagiced spell is considered to be a higher-level spell for all purposes except save DC", that'd be a different story. But that's not what they put down.

Just a note- that same maximized empowered etc scorching ray gets stopped by a minor globe of invulnerability, which I think is what the original intent spoke to. Could be wrong, of course...

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

Just so I understand the OP, are you asking if someone can use the Shadow spells to mimic a spell with a metamagic feat applied, without that character having the actual Feat?

I believe the answer is No.

If you happen to be a wizard who has the Maximize feat, and you casted a Shadow spell, you could then apply the feat you have to the spell.

 

[Jack Simth]

Just a note- that same maximized empowered etc scorching ray gets stopped by a minor globe of invulnerability, which I think is what the original intent spoke to. Could be wrong, of course...

Well, yes. But they could just as easily have written that exception into the Globe of Invulnerability description just as they did for putting metamagic on scrolls.

But tell me: Which is a bigger deal: A Wizard-9 putting out ... a Maximized, Empowered, Energy Admixtured, Twinned, Split Ray, Chained Scorching Ray = ((24*2+4d6*2)*2)*2=192+32d6 on a primary target (will save for only 20% damage), and half that on each of 9 secondary targets with a 5th level spell slot and no feat investment (and it can get worse - you can apply Energy Admixture multiple times, once for each element), or a Maximized Scorching Ray getting past a Lesser Globe of Invulnerability?

 

[jefgorbach]

Without digging, IRC the shadow spells duplicate a desired based spell upto level# and metamagic feats do NOT adjust the base spell-level but rather its effective casting slot so suspect RAW would allow any combination desired ... however for the sake of internal consistency/balance would limit shadow-duplicating UNKNOWN metamagic effects so the result complies with the shadow spell's normal slot-level.

IE: Shadow Evocation allows duplicating upto 4th level spells.
Thus I'd allow duplicating a 1st level spell with upto 3 levels of unknown metamagic feats.

KNOWN metamagic feats apply normally, so could be added to the duplicated result raising the final result above a 4th level spell slot.