Need help with Manueverability

[garrowolf]

I am working on a manueverability table and I am kind of stuck. I need to know if it looks right to people. Plus I need to add sailboats including large galleons and such. It's not the same as the D20 modern ratings partially because I think that if it is moving then it should have a better defense then if it isn't moving.
Here is what I have so far:
1) Barge, Bus, Cabin Cruiser
2) Rowboat, Limo, Armored Truck, Powerboat
3) Sedan (car), Prop plane, large helicopter
4) Sports coupe, ATV, helicopter
5) Faster Sports coupe, Learjet, small helicopter
6)[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] Dirt Bike, A-10, Jet Ski[/FONT]
7) Racing Bike, F-14
8) F-15, F-18
9) F-16, F-22

Any suggestions on what I should move up or down?

 

[garrowolf]

any ideas?

 

[AeroDm]

I don't 100% get the objective. Is this ability to turn? speed? some combination of the two? A dirt bike is probably the most maneuverable thing on your list but it is in the middle of the pack. Maybe it would help if you told us what you'd do with the table later.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

IIRC, vehicles get a Defense bonus based on their speed in d20 Modern. Eg alley speed gives a bonus, highway speed gives a bigger bonus, etc.

Less maneuverable vehicles get a penalty to Drive/Pilot checks, and more maneuverable ones get bonuses instead.

There's a set of rules that were intended to be used for d20 Future but didn't make it into the product. They allowed the Pilot to fly a spaceship defensively. This "jinking" gives a penalty to hit but a bonus to Defense based on how high the roll was, and of course a more maneuverable spaceship gives a bigger bonus to the Pilot check and therefore a likely higher Defense bonus.

So, an unskilled driver moving an 18-wheeler at low speed is going to have a very easy-to-hit vehicle, while a very skilled pilot jinking with an F-16 is going to be ludicrously difficult to hit. Only missiles (with their equipment bonuses to hit) would have any chance at all.

 

[garrowolf]

I am using maneuverability to covers everything that would improve your defense so turn radius, acceleration, and handling. Basically what makes it harder to hit, not including size or some sort of cloaking. I don't want the system to get bogged down in turn radius and acceleration/deceleration though.
It didn't want to have penalties from maneuver since it shouldn't be easier to hit when moving then when still.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Avoiding acceleration/deceleration is nearly impossible, however, at least for ground-based vehicles. (In space, you could assume all ships are moving at the same speed, and "speed" would actually be acceleration; that's how Alternity handled it.)

I don't know what you mean by "penalties from maneuver" but in the proposed d20 Future rules, if you're jinking a ship all over the sky, it gets kind of hard to aim. In any event, jinking gives the ship a Defense bonus. (In d20 Future, ships got the pilot's Defenses before applying size penalties, so the Defenses could easily get high enough that misses would occur.)

 

[garrowolf]

Why would avoiding acceleration/deceleration be hard at all? Just don't use it. You don't need it.

For a chase you just need to know which one is faster. If the prey is faster by 1.5 then it can choose to loose the predator on open terrain. If the predator is faster then the prey can't loose them in open terrain.

The prey has initiative since it is dictating the chase. The prey rolls for terrain. It's total is the DC to keep up with it. If they fail they take damage.

The predator rolls to keep up or the terrain, which ever is higher. If they fail then they can't attack the prey. If they roll below the terrain DC then they take damage. If they botch then they crash and loose the prey. If they succeed well then they get a bonus.

Manuever ratings add to both rolls. What else is really needed?

 

[garrowolf]

Alright this is what I have at this point:
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Rating Examples[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]0 Ox Cart, Cog, Small Barge, Large Naval Vessels[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]1 Barge, Caravel, Fishing Boat, Antique Car[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]2 Rowboat, Cabin Cruiser Boat, Galleon, Bus, Armored Truck, Tractor Trailer, Forklift, Stage Coach[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]3 Limousine, Armored Truck, Warship, Trireme, Longship, 2 Horse Chariot, Tank [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]4 Coastal, Corvette, Sloop, Snowmobile, Compact Car, Jeep, Pickup[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]5 Sedan, Prop Plane, Large Helicopter, Powerboat, Bomber[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]6 ATV, Transport Helicopter, Speed boat, Dune Buggy[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]7 Sports Car, Police Cruiser, WW2 Fighter, Learjet, Small Helicopter [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]8 Dirt Bike, Jet Ski, Hydrofoil[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]9 Racing Bike, Formula 1 Car, A-10[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]10 F-14[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]11 F-18, F-15[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]12 F-16, F-22[/FONT]
Any thoughts?

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Why would avoiding acceleration/deceleration be hard at all? Just don't use it. You don't need it.

Unless the battle starts with the PCs rushing toward a car, while the NPCs get in it and drive off, as the PCs shoot at it. Said car won't be traveling that fast at first.

 

[Umbran]

Why would avoiding acceleration/deceleration be hard at all? Just don't use it. You don't need it.

For a chase you just need to know which one is faster.

That's only true on a flat straight course. Generally speaking, you have to slow down to turn and retain control. So, how quickly you can slow down and speed up again can matter.

Go play a few rounds of Car Wars (from Steve Jackson Games), and you'll see what I mean.