Average income of a social class?

[haakon1]

did you as a PC 20 years or so ago, run around with small armies at your heels?

No, but one of my PC's and his friends owned a castle and had hundreds of troops and servants working for him. It never became directly involved in adventuring though -- it was the home we were defending.

That was not unusual in Gygax's campaign, from what I understand. Mordenkainen had troops in the low thousands, I believe, at his hidden fortress in the Yatils.

 

[Celebrim]

I'm finding your tone a bit offensive here.

Well, ditto.

You do understand that I'm arguing for increasing *labour* costs in gold-rush areas, *not* item costs?

Of course I !@#$# well understand what you are arguing.

I'll try to put this simply...

Don't bother. You're still stuck in the assumption that I'm comparing to a "gp-based modern-American economy", and feeling the need to bold every other statement and talk down to me. Meanwhile, you're every other statement brings you more and more closely into agreement with me despite your instance that you "essentially disagree with all of this".

I mean honestly, now that you are outlining this:

In a gold-rush area, use (1e-3e) PHB prices, and multiply the sp-standard hireling costs by x5 or x10. Elite NPC hireling costs are already on gp standard.

In a normal area, reduce (1e-3e) PHB prices where they appear inflated (perhaps to 1/5 - which coincidentally is 4e's standard 'sale by PCs' value). Use (1e-3e) sp-standard hireling costs as-is. In some case Elite NPC hireling costs should be reduced, perhaps to 1/5.

How are you very much different than what I just advised Haakon1 when I said?

The easiest fix for this is to ignore the realistic silver peice economy and multiple all your incomes, subsistance costs, and anything else with assumptions rooted in the wage = 1 s.p. assumption by a factor of 10 to convert it to the standard gold peice economy. Or alternately you can adjust all of the prices in the gamist gold peice economy down by a factor of 10.

Is the problem here that you "essentially disagree with all of this" and ready and able to make dumb straw men of my points when in fact you don't understand a bit of what I said and actually, once you get down to it, you agree with most of it? Exactly why the heck are you trying to talk down to me and pretending I have a reading comprehension problem?

 

[haakon1]

I generally just use the cost of living descriptions for Pathfinder to determine income at various social classes.

Good link. (Too many XP to you, so I need to post instead.)

BTW, Celebrim and S'mon, there's no need to raise voices. You're both good guys with good things to say. No one is saying anyone else is dumb.

 

[Oryan77]

BTW, Celebrim and S'mon, there's no need to raise voices. You're both good guys with good things to say. No one is saying anyone else is dumb.

Yeah, I didn't think S'mon was talking down or even being aggressive at all (that is, until Celebrim was being a bit snarky). Seems like a misunderstanding to me.

 

[S'mon]

Is the problem here that you "essentially disagree with all of this" and ready and able to make dumb straw men of my points when in fact you don't understand a bit of what I said and actually, once you get down to it, you agree with most of it? Exactly why the heck are you trying to talk down to me and pretending I have a reading comprehension problem?

If anyone else wants to talk to Celebrim, go for it. I'm done.

 

[Celebrim]

Yeah, I didn't think S'mon was talking down or even being aggressive at all (that is, until Celebrim was being a bit snarky). Seems like a misunderstanding to me.

Maybe. But he did double post in response a "complete disagreement" filled with bolds, italics, and exclamation marks for emphasis, in which he ridiculed my suggestions as being the product of of thinking "based modern-American economy" rather than a pre-modern one. It seemed to me that he was trying to convey some amount of emotion, frustration, or indignation to pepper his writing thusly.

He then went on to suggest almost exactly the very thing he had so emphaticly stressed his disagreement to, which suggests to me that all that bolded, italized complete disagreement wasn't actually based on anything I've said.

But, ok, if its a misunderstanding, then sure. I can put it behind me. I can put it behind me even if it isn't an understanding, but as far as not giving the appearance of being aggressive... well, I'm not sure how else you go about that on the internet. All caps, maybe?

 

[Umbran]

Dudes, just so you know, neither one of you is making yourselves look good right now. Please, cut it out already.