Does it end with a TPK?

[Vegepygmy]

Is the death of players characters a final end to the story?

It's not an end to the story, just to their story. The campaign may continue, or a new campaign may begin.

What are your views on permiting re-tries?
What would be the pros and the cons of such home rules?

For me, it would undermine the verisimilitude that keeps me invested in the game. It would emphasize that this is "just a game" we're playing, rather than an "alternate reality" we're experiencing.

On the pro side, I could see the players learning from "doing it over again, better this time" and thus improving their system mastery. I'd like that, but the cost would simply be too high for me.

 

[jonesy]

Depends on the campaign, and the setting, and the game, and the players, and the characters, and the story, and the situation.

A TPK in Paranoia (where everybody has clones and the TPK rate in a single adventure can be 700%) is different from a TPK in D&D (where resurrection by an outside source isn't out of the picture) is different from a TPK in Top Secret (Mission Failed) is different from a TPK in CoC (ouch).

But usually a final TPK does end the story.

 

[Asmo]

Didn´t 3.5 (or perhaps 3.0) have an artefact or magic object that could "save the game" before the BBEG?

Asmo

 

[NewJeffCT]

Didn´t 3.5 (or perhaps 3.0) have an artefact or magic object that could "save the game" before the BBEG?

Asmo

There is a level 9 psionic power that allows one to rewind the entire last round of combat, or something like that.

 

[jonesy]

There is a level 9 psionic power that allows one to rewind the entire last round of combat, or something like that.

How would one use it if one were dead? Do you cast it beforehand? Is it like a contingency?

 

[the Jester]

How would one use it if one were dead? Do you cast it beforehand? Is it like a contingency?

IIRC you have to survive to use it. However, there is a late-3e series of "resurrect mahself" cleric spells that you cast in advance.

 

[NewJeffCT]

IIRC you have to survive to use it. However, there is a late-3e series of "resurrect mahself" cleric spells that you cast in advance.

Yes, I had that in my last campaign for the BBEG, who was also the high priest of the god of tyranny & slavery. I believe it cost a permanent 2 points of CON, however, that cannot be restored even through Wish/Miracle.

He had that cast on himself by one of his clerics who wished to curry his favor. (The way the deity was written up, there were two clerics that were second in command within the religion... one was a frail old woman, and the other was the epitome of female beauty in the mortal world. I figured the only way the old woman could compete for leadership against the young beauty was to offer up 2 points of CON to cast the contingent resurrection on her leader. And, thus, that was the story behind why she was not only old, but frail, but got to be the #2 cleric in the church.)

So, in the final encounter, the players were battered & bruised and finally managed to trap the high priest within an anti-magic shell. Without his magical defenses/buffs, they beat him down and chopped off his head in order to hopefully get the Dark Crown off of his now severed head (The Dark Crown was a powerful evil artifact).

I forgot what the next plan was for the PCs, but as soon as the head left the anti-magic field - Boom, the cleric springs back to life, fully healed. Wasn't that a surprise? (I think they hated me when that happened... ) However, since his body was back within the anti-magic shell still, the high cleric came back naked and without any weapons. Still, he managed to rally his troops and extend the battle for a while longer... and, with all the dead bodies on the battlefield, finding a weapon wasn't hard for him.

 

[Traveon Wyvernspur]

Interesting topic. I've always played it that the world went on with or without the PCs, if they died then another group of adventurers would take up the mantle and try to save the world.

I've never been involved in a rewind, and I wouldn't want to be. Half the fun of the game is to see if you live or die trying to complete heroic deeds. If the heroes don't have the prospect of death always over the next ridge, why even call yourself an adventurer or hero?

The only exception I can see if the GM wants to keep the campaign going with the current PCs that he/she may fudge the dice rolls a bit to keep the last PC alive so that there isn't a TPK, especially if the whole group really likes the campaign and the characters they are playing. This isn't rewinding, but it is preserving the campaign. I've done this a couple of times before with none the wiser.

 

[Plane Sailing]

For me, the only acceptable alternative to 'everyone dead, campaign ends' is if there is an in-game way to re-write the ending - whether that is the use of a Deck of many things 'Fate' card, or a Wish or something similar.

Otherwise, it ends. If the PCs got to mid-to-high level I'd probably start a brand new campaign next, as some of the key stories would have been told. If the party were still low level, I'd give them the option of starting anew in the same world.

Cheers

 

[NewJeffCT]

I will also say that my example above was not a TPK - it was 3 PCs out of a party of 10 PCs (yes, it was a big group).

I think I would mostly play it by ear in terms of the whole party getting killed. However, in 3E/3.5E, the game was designed to go from level 1-20, whereas 1E/2E were typically going from 1-10. So, things play out differently by edition as well.

Meaning, in most 1E/2E campaigns, Raise Dead only happened at the very end of a campaign, and Resurrection was almost impossible unless you visited the high priest NPC of an allied church and you did a great service for them. However, in 3E/3.5E, where the games were designed to go from level 1-20, Raise Dead is playable less than halfway through the campaign, while Resurrection is playable less than 2/3 of the way through the campaign. So, Death is typically more final in 1E/2E than it is in 3E/3.5E (heck, over the last 8-9 levels of my 3.5E campaign, if the PCs didn't cast a "Revivify" at least once or twice a combat, I was doing something wrong...) So, I'd also say that it depends on which edition you were playing.